***Official*** New Zealand in England series 2013

[NUFAN]

Adders, lunch was taken in the 12th over. Broad and Anderson both got to rest for 40 minutes and each bowled a further 5 or so overs so I don't think it was a problem.

If NZ had of batted for a further 15 minutes, we would most likely had seen Finn and Swann.

 

[GGG]

I haven't read much about Vettori in a while, it was my understanding that he gave up on ODI's and international 20/20's and was sticking to just tests and domestic 20/20's? Has he changed his tune or am I mistaken?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Most importantly Finn didn't have a chance to bowl total garbage and fluke some more stats padding wickets. So it certainly wasn't a mistake.

It's interesting to see what the selectors will do, actually. On Ch5's highlights Boycott and Vaughan (admittedly citizens of the People's Republic of Yorkshire both) were advocating Bresnan for Headingley.

Flower has already shown he's prepared to look beyond the wickets-for column when he dropped Finn for the 3rd test in 10/11 because he was going for too many.

Wickets or not Finn did not bowl well first dig.

 

[Tungsten]

I manage Navman Cheesecake - I think you're in the same Youth division as me.

Ah neat, my youth team is struggling as I'm focusing on seniors for a bit. Looks like you might be doing something similar with no strong 16/17yo players in your squad.

 

[Jezroy]

Well, apparently Vettori is fit afterall.

Cool - can he spin the ball again yet?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Cool - can he spin the ball again yet?

Whadda ya mean "again"?

Mind you, not like Bartin rags it square, is it?

 

[harsh.ag]

David Saker calls Anderson the most skillful bowler in the world

Is he always this big of a mouth-off??

"To me, he is the most skilfull fast bowler in the world," Saker said. "I know Dale Steyn is an outstanding bowler, but when you watch the way Jimmy goes about things, he has more skills in his locker. Steyn might be a little quicker but watch Anderson deliver those skills and it's just mind-blowing. When he gets it right, there's no more skillful bowler in the world."

 

[CWB304]

It's interesting to see what the selectors will do, actually. On Ch5's highlights Boycott and Vaughan (admittedly citizens of the People's Republic of Yorkshire both) were advocating Bresnan for Headingley.

Flower has already shown he's prepared to look beyond the wickets-for column when he dropped Finn for the 3rd test in 10/11 because he was going for too many.

Wickets or not Finn did not bowl well first dig.

Finn then was very raw and very clueless; he's a totally different bowler now. Dropping him at this stage for Bresnan or any of the alternatives would be a step back towards the days of clueless chopping and changing. He's now clearly the third English seamer and has the express pace, which the first two lack, that makes for a great balance with Broad and Anderson. When the current version of Bresnan is bowling he all too often seems as if he's just trying to get through his overs and keep things reasonably tight while the genuine wicket taking threats rest up; Finn is nothing if not a wicket-taking threat.

Also just as I'd agree with you about his first innings showing, I'd equally disagree with what you seem to have taken away from it. When a bowler has a knack of getting wickets at okayish economy for "flattering" figures having not bowled particularly well, it tends not to be a fluke and should give the coach/selectors confidence to keep picking him - look at Botham's career and the number of times he finished up with figures like Finn's in the first dig having been far from his best. Anyway, congrats to England and good to see Broad back; now that he's fully fit I expect to see him kick on very strongly from here.

 

[CWB304]

David Saker calls Anderson the most skillful bowler in the world

Is he always this big of a mouth-off??

He can say what he likes about who's the "most skillful"; the fact is that Steyn and Philander have demonstrated on tracks around the world that they are clearly better bowlers than Jimmy, and that's pretty incontrovertible. The Jimmy nuthuggers are in danger of triggering a backlash against their man by outdoing the Indian Zaheer Khan loons - and I say this as a massive fan of Anderson.

 

[Furball]

David Saker calls Anderson the most skillful bowler in the world

Is he always this big of a mouth-off??

It's an analysis I'd agree with.

Anderson is more skilled than Steyn; but Steyn is the better bowler of the two.

 

[Cabinet96]

The thing is, Finn doesn't bowl any quicker than Bresnan was bowling before the latter got his elbow injury. And Finn doesn't do much with the ball either.

 

[Howe_zat]

It's a strange way to phrase it as bowling that bit quicker is as skillful as the rest of it, but yeah you get his point. Not really a mouth off at all.

 

[Cabinet96]

It's a strange way to phrase it as bowling that bit quicker is as skillful as the rest of it, but yeah you get his point. Not really a mouth off at all.

People don't think about how these things work. If he's asked about Anderson, and he says he doesn't think he's as skilful as bowler A or bowler B, then everyone starts questioning his confidence in the bowling attack and you get headlines along the lines of "Saker labels Anderson mediocre"

Not only is his assessment correct, but it's also one that has to be said.

 

[greg]

And let's face it. Steyn has a relatively poor record in England and, in fact, against England.

Then again, so did Lara if you take out 375 and 400*!

 

[Scaly piscine]

Finn then was very raw and very clueless; he's a totally different bowler now. Dropping him at this stage for Bresnan or any of the alternatives would be a step back towards the days of clueless chopping and changing. He's now clearly the third English seamer and has the express pace, which the first two lack, that makes for a great balance with Broad and Anderson. When the current version of Bresnan is bowling he all too often seems as if he's just trying to get through his overs and keep things reasonably tight while the genuine wicket taking threats rest up; Finn is nothing if not a wicket-taking threat.

Also just as I'd agree with you about his first innings showing, I'd equally disagree with what you seem to have taken away from it. When a bowler has a knack of getting wickets at okayish economy for "flattering" figures having not bowled particularly well, it tends not to be a fluke and should give the coach/selectors confidence to keep picking him - look at Botham's career and the number of times he finished up with figures like Finn's in the first dig having been far from his best. Anyway, congrats to England and good to see Broad back; now that he's fully fit I expect to see him kick on very strongly from here.

Is he bollocks clearly the third English seamer. If he's progressed at all it's as a limited overs bowler where being used to getting minimal movement and being awkward is required to be very effective. He's no better as a Test bowler, which is borne out by the stats - in 2010 he fluked 46 wickets at 26, since then he's fluked wickets at more than 30 each year. His economy rate is the only thing that's dropped but he's still too expensive - which means he can be a bit of a liability and he's certainly not going to get you wickets for the guy at the other end like Anderson does.

 

[CWB304]

People don't think about how these things work. If he's asked about Anderson, and he says he doesn't think he's as skilful as bowler A or bowler B, then everyone starts questioning his confidence in the bowling attack and you get headlines along the lines of "Saker labels Anderson mediocre"

Not only is his assessment correct, but it's also one that has to be said.

His assessment is incorrect. This is cricket, not ice dancing: there are no marks for "artistic impression". And please explain the yawning chasm between their respective bowling averages, if the one with the superior skills has far inferior figures? Philander is no quicker than Anderson; Steyn mostly bowls only a smidgeon quicker than him these days; yet Steyn averages in the low twenties and Philander even better than that (his average will obviously deteriorate with time but will surely end up no higher than 25 as with the vast majority of other great seam bowlers). Anderson's average hovers around thirty - and has been doing so for the past three or four years, despite people always using the inconsistent early part of his career and resulting high average to explain away this good but not great showing.

Sorry folks, it doesn't work that way. You can't slice the salami into innumerable subjective and impossible to measure slivers like "most skillful", just so as to give a guy averaging thirty the palm he'll never obtain by the accepted metrics. If the "most skillful" is not the same as the best, then it's a meaningless expression, and whoever is using it is just chopping logic to no effect. The best in the seam bowling category are Steyn and Philander; it is visible to the eye and it is validated in the statistics, and hence they are "the most skillful". Hoop it round corners both ways and bamboozle batsmen for fun all you like, but if you don't eventually catch the edge or get him out in some other way, then you haven't attained the objective and you're therefore not "the most skillful".

 

[Bahnz]

I tend to disagree that Anderson is the most skillful. Steyn generates greater swing, with greater consistency and similar accuracy, from a faster arm action. That takes immense skill and control.

The only thing Jimmy has over Steyn is that he has a much better inswinger. But that alone does not make him more skillful.

This reminds me a bit of that phase the NZ media went through of calling Daniel Vettori the "best left arm spinner in the world", a grand title, but one that didn't change the fact that there were still half dozen international spinners who were obviously much better bowlers.

 

[watson]

For the record......here we have Anderson's 300th Test wicket milestone.

James Anderson's 300th Test wicket - England v New Zealand highlights, Day 2 Afternoon, Lord's - YouTube

Which puts him in the top half-dozen ATG English bowlers IMO. Great job!

 

[Howe_zat]

i'm a philistine

csb

 

[Top_Cat]

Think people are conflating 'skilled' with 'skilful' with regards Anderson and Steyn, Saker included. Anderson has more things in the bowling kitbag (skills) but Steyn uses what he has in his better (more skilfully). Saker himself was more the former than latter, incidentally.

So Saker's right, in my book. I doubt he's saying Anderson's a better bower than Steyn.