***Official*** New Zealand in England series 2013

[Flem274*]

I once played in this club game where our opening bowler was looking threatening but couldn't break through and we needed another two wickets. Rather than persisting with the opening bowler the captain who was fielding at first slip put on the guy who was fielding at second slip to bowl. As the new bowler started to walk to take the ball he turned to the captain and said "and just put it on a length nothing fancy" and then nodded his head knowingly at the skip. It became obvious to all of us that the second slip had talked his way into bowling by giving some theory or another on what we needed to get the breakthrough. Needless to say he bowled like crap and we lost the game.

Where am I going with this?
I was watching the Champions Trophy final some years ago and baz was captain. And in a surprise move he brought on Elliot to bowl. On his way to his run up Elliot turned to baz and the stump mics caught him say and I'll just put it back of a length - and then he did that thing which bowlers do where he flicked his wrist to show he would seam it. I was reminded of my club game and I had the impression Grant had talked his way into bowling. Needless to say the outcome was identical and baz looked disgusted and let down when Elliot bowled one for 5 wides. Moral of the story captains shouldn't bowl losers at bowling even if they talk a good game.

That's not completely fair on Elliott. He's played some good hands with the ball. Particularly on our last tour to England.

Not a frontliner but he's in the Scotty Styris mould.

 

[Hurricane]

That's not completely fair on Elliott. He's played some good hands with the ball. Particularly on our last tour to England.

Not a frontliner but he's in the Scotty Styris mould.

indeed = loser is a bit harsh. In that instance it was apt however if he had talked himself up.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Let's not forget that Ronchi opening for Wellington was an experiment demanded by NZC. The fact that the experiment failed and it still hasn't deterred NZC from selecting Ronchi in that capacity is the strange point.

We do have a tendency with batsman to give them every opportunity to fail, rather than playing them in a more ideal position. I suspect we'll soon be able to add Ronchi to that rather sad looking list.

Reminds me of 8-10 years ago England seemed determined to try every wicketkeeper in the country - including Chris 'duck' Read iirc - to become a Gilchristian opener.

Similar thought processes at work?

 

[Cabinet96]

Reminds me of 8-10 years ago England seemed determined to try every wicketkeeper in the country - including Chris 'duck' Read iirc - to become a Gilchristian opener.

Errr, this only ended about two and a half months ago.

 

[Jezroy]

That's not completely fair on Elliott. He's played some good hands with the ball. Particularly on our last tour to England.

Not a frontliner but he's in the Scotty Styris mould.

My belief is that Styris is a much better LO bowler than Elliot.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Errr, this only ended about two and a half months ago.

shows how much attention I pay to 50-over cricket

 

[Kippax]

Reminds me of 8-10 years ago England seemed determined to try every wicketkeeper in the country - including Chris 'duck' Read iirc - to become a Gilchristian opener.

Similar thought processes at work?

Well it was, Ronchi opened for about three seasons for W.A. and Australia A, occasionally booming it. Aussies to verify but I think he probably managed a 30-35 average all told, left his team at 5/1 plenty of times within that.

 

[NZTailender]

We'll hopefully see, from the squad

1. L Ronchi
2. M Guptill
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. G Elliott
6. B McCullum*+
7. D Vettori
8. N McCullum
9. K Mills
10. T Southee
11. M McClenaghan

but I can see Mitch missing out to Ellis or Franko...

 

[_Ed_]

but I can see Mitch missing out to Ellis or Franko...

Sad, but true. Hopefully, if those guys do come in, it'd be for NcCullum. With Vettori back, he's surplus to requirements IMO.

 

[Jezroy]

We'll hopefully see, from the squad

1. L Ronchi
2. M Guptill
3. K Williamson
4. R Taylor
5. G Elliott
6. B McCullum*+
7. D Vettori
8. N McCullum
9. K Mills
10. T Southee
11. M McClenaghan

but I can see Mitch missing out to Ellis or Franko...

Yeah, gotta say I would rather see Franklin in for NcCullum. Especially early season England.

Then you have 10 overs each from Vettori, Mills, Mitch, and Timmeh.

With 10 to come from out of Jimmeh, Kane, Elliot.

 

[hendrix]

Not the worst squads but I agree with the general murmur here:

1. Why Andy Ellis?
2. Why not Matt Henry?
3. Why Ronchi opening?
4. Why Watling dropped from ODI squad?

Ronchi>present day McCullum with gloves.
McCullum>>>>>>>Ronchi as a batsman.

McCullum should be opening, Ronchi would make a good finisher.

 

[jcas0167]

but I can see Mitch missing out to Ellis or Franko...

Given McLenaghan was the go to man for McCullum in SA and against England I doubt it. Fitness permitting I'd say he would be one of the first picked.

 

[Kippax]

Yes fair to say McCullum wubs Mitch.

"I am gutted," admitted Black Caps captain Brendon McCullum. "I think he's been a revelation for his this year.

"He has done an amazing job for us and has really allowed us to attack in areas that we probably haven't had that luxury of in recent times.

"It's incredibly disappointing for him, but at the same time, it now gives him an opportunity to rest himself up and make sure he's fresh for our next assignment."

McCullum hinted Trent Boult might be McClenaghan's replacement.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Elliot is the kind of guy who can be hard to score runs off, but once batters work him out, or dont care about the risk will go for a **** load.

 

[Jezroy]

Yes fair to say McCullum wubs Mitch.

Mike WILL be jealous.

 

[Jezroy]

Elliot is the kind of guy who can be hard to score runs off, but once batters work him out, or dont care about the risk will go for a **** load.

I guess that is especially moreso on grounds like Seddon/McLean/Eden Park etc etc.

Stupid tiny little grounds.

 

[grecian]

KP ruled out of the series, gonna make our middle-order pretty frail. Worrying for Pietersen too.

 

[Spikey]

Kevin Pietersen @kevinpp24
Injuries are a sportsman's worst nightmare! This one is hurting me the most..

i'm sure it is

 

[theegyptian]

England in mess at No6 but Stokes is future, says Collingwood | Mail Online

I don't disagree with Collingwood that Stokes is the future no.6 and would be ideal for England there if he can get his head screwed on right- and for that mattter england are in a bit of a mess at 6.

Then again saying that Morgan should be batting at 6 is lol bad. Why should he be in the team. He's failed at test level and doesn't play enough 4 day cricket to get back into the team. Last season he averaged less than 20 in the 5 games he played for Middlesex in the CC.

What point Collingwood is indirectly saying with the morgan stuff is that the rest of the number 6's are crap and not ready. This is probably fair. Bairstow, Taylor, Root all have decen potential but none are ready made test players and in an ideal world would still be gaining experience playing in county cricket.

Dobell at cricinfo is a massive fan of Rikki Clarke and no doubt would have Clarke in. Problem being with Clarke that he a) bats at 7 and b) is the fourth seamer and c) is 31.

If Clarke plays you've got 2 no.7's and one of Prior or Clarke will have to bat at 6. Clarke almost certainly isn't a test no.6; Prior could bat there but I'd be worried about losing some of what makes him so good.

Least with Stokes he can comfortably bat at 6 as he's batted in the top 6(normally 4 or 5) his whole career at Durham. He is now also the 3/4th seamer at Durham.

Unfortunately Stokes like Bairstow, Root, Taylor isn't ready for international cricket yet and you've gotta hope that unlike the others he is given a bit more time to develop at first class level. HIm getting send home from the lions tour should actually help in that respect as england will be wary of thrusting him into international recognition too soon.


Be really interesting to see what would happen if Prior went down with an injury before the first test. Would be interesting to see which wicketkeeper they would go with and whether it opens up an opportunity for Stokes, Woakes, Bresnan, or Clarke. Could be a load of possible combinations.

 

[Wright]

England in mess at No6 but Stokes is future, says Collingwood | Mail Online

I don't disagree with Collingwood that Stokes is the future no.6 and would be ideal for England there if he can get his head screwed on right- and for that mattter england are in a bit of a mess at 6.

Then again saying that Morgan should be batting at 6 is lol bad. Why should he be in the team. He's failed at test level and doesn't play enough 4 day cricket to get back into the team. Last season he averaged less than 20 in the 5 games he played for Middlesex in the CC.

What point Collingwood is indirectly saying with the morgan stuff is that the rest of the number 6's are crap and not ready. This is probably fair. Bairstow, Taylor, Root all have decen potential but none are ready made test players and in an ideal world would still be gaining experience playing in county cricket.

Dobell at cricinfo is a massive fan of Rikki Clarke and no doubt would have Clarke in. Problem being with Clarke that he a) bats at 7 and b) is the fourth seamer and c) is 31.

If Clarke plays you've got 2 no.7's and one of Prior or Clarke will have to bat at 6. Clarke almost certainly isn't a test no.6; Prior could bat there but I'd be worried about losing some of what makes him so good.

Least with Stokes he can comfortably bat at 6 as he's batted in the top 6(normally 4 or 5) his whole career at Durham. He is now also the 3/4th seamer at Durham.

Unfortunately Stokes like Bairstow, Root, Taylor isn't ready for international cricket yet and you've gotta hope that unlike the others he is given a bit more time to develop at first class level. HIm getting send home from the lions tour should actually help in that respect as england will be wary of thrusting him into international recognition too soon.


Be really interesting to see what would happen if Prior went down with an injury before the first test. Would be interesting to see which wicketkeeper they would go with and whether it opens up an opportunity for Stokes, Woakes, Bresnan, or Clarke. Could be a load of possible combinations.

Surely there is a South African player who can bat at 6 for you??