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***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
England's selection also to blame a bit. I remember Geoff Miller saying "conditions should suit Woakes". As if to say, "nibbly green seamers, their pubs close at six and there's two television channels. My intel's written in bound print".

Despite the flat pitches, the dodgy autumn light and the seaside mizzle, NZ have never played out express pace for a high series average, that's what I would've run with.

meh england don't really have any express pace guys to select. Meaker is closest but he ain't that quick or good. other than that there are probably 5 in county cricket who could bowl the odd ball 90mph+ but all are average. I'd agree that the assumption that because it's NZ conditions you could send any county trundler out there and the conditions will suit is disingenous but Woakes has been the most consistent guy in county cricket and deserves the chance regardless of the conditions.
 

Jezroy

State Captain
Nah look I'll criticise Southee's batting till the cows come home but he bowled well in Wellington without reward and bowled well in patches in Dunedin.

He is never going to be as tight as Trent Boult, but it's not as if he was bowling like (bad) Mitchell Johnson either.
Yes he does bowl well in patches, but there is a big difference between the guy that was flinging down 142kph outswingers in India and SL, and the guy that sometimes can't hit 130 kph consistently here.

I know speed isn't everything (thanks Vernon for the heads up), but it's like it has been a great indicator in the past of Timmeh's rhythm, and an indication at how he is trucking.

And he does look like he's bowled about 14 overs in a row after about 4. Sometimes.

I love Timmeh, don't get me wrong, but I just wish he could bottle whatever it is that sometimes makes him a world beater. I'm sure he does too.
 

Jezroy

State Captain
Don't blame the rankings, blame New Zealand for being spectacularly **** over the last 5 years.

Our record since the 2007 world cup (not including Bangladesh and Zimbabwe).

v SA 0-2; v ENG 1-2; v ENG 0-2; v AUS 0-2; v WI 0-0; v IND 0-1; v SRL 0-2; v PAK 1-1;
v AUS 0-2; v IND 0-1; v PAK 0-1; v AUS 1-1; v SAF 0-1; v WI 0-2 v IND 0-2; v SRL 1-1;
v SAF 0-2
Did I count wrong or is that 4 wins and 25 losses?

Suckiness.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
meh england don't really have any express pace guys to select. Meaker is closest but he ain't that quick or good. other than that there are probably 5 in county cricket who could bowl the odd ball 90mph+ but all are average.
I think someone who's prone to some abject filth and also hits high 140's could work ftr, given Cook/Compton/Bell/Trott/Root/Anderson/Finn is already sort of pitting a 5-4-1 formation against NZ's All Whites. We'll find out for sure when Tino comes to town next season probs.

Mohammed Sami 5/44 - Pakistan v New Zealand 1st test at Hamilton 2003/04 - YouTube
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Cricket: Black Caps stick with bowl first plan - Sport - NZ Herald News

Since April 2009, New Zealand have won the toss and fielded six times in home tests.

Five tests have been drawn and one lost, to Pakistan at Wellington in December that year.


That doesn't suggest the underpinning of a winning philosophy.

However McCullum rates it "not too bad a strategy to play test cricket in New Zealand".

His argument is that pitches rarely break up, therefore it's better to try and make inroads with the ball on the first day when lateral movement may be on offer for the seamers.

Hesson would not call it a blanket policy to bowl first, but concurred with McCullum's thinking.

"The type of clay we use doesn't really deteriorate a heck of a lot," he said.

"If you want to take 20 wickets the first morning is generally where you get the most assistance.

"We were disappointed with the way we bowled on the first morning in Wellington. There wasn't a lot of movement but there was enough and we didn't quite get it right."

England captain Alastair Cook admitted he too would have bowled first in Wellington. His seamers may have done the trick for him, but it was probably a good toss for the lefthanded opener to lose.

Of the three test strips, Eden Park with its drop-in pitches, is likely to have the most pace and carry, although the expectation is that it will also offer good batting conditions.

"The pitches offer a wee bit (to bowlers)," Eden Park turf manager Mark Perham said.

"If you're willing to bend your back it does a bit with the new ball so hopefully we will see the game move on a bit."

McCullum broadly concurred.

"I'd expect a good cricket wicket where you've got to work hard for your wickets and if you commit yourself with the bat there's certainly some runs on offer," he said.

The potential bounce could play into the hands of England's tall quick Steven Finn, who was a handful in the ODI on the ground last month. McCullum remained confident New Zealand had the wherewithal to cope.

"Throughout this series and this summer we've been confronted with some bouncy conditions. Some we've dealt with okay, some we haven't.

"So we're going to have to come up with a strategy to overcome it and I'm confident the guys are trending in the right direction and know what they're going to be confronted with."
 

Meridio

International Regular
God, I love Jeremy Wells' articles: Jeremy Wells: The simple joys of test cricket at the Basin Reserve - Sport - NZ Herald News.

Let out a huge snort after reading this line, which has caused some funny looks from people at work.

My bladder was full of soft drink. As I urinated in the spacious and user-friendly women's toilets, I felt relieved that test cricket will never die in the capital.
Re: article linked by Kippax above - I'm really not a fan of the recent trend of deciding what we're going to do two days out from the test match. Especially considering that Eden Park hasn't hosted a test for about seven years.

Don't know what to expect from the pitch - obvs the outer oval is the roadiest road in the country, but the drop-in pitches in the last few years for the ODIs have had some pace and bounce. Haven't really seamed, from memory, but the ball should swing in Auckland with the extra heat and humidity.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Domestic captains have tended to say Eden Park's a big bowl first, Perham's known for leaving plenty of grass on before it plays like an artificial with a concrete base.

Craig Cachopa, 145 vs. Central Districts - YouTube

Cricket: Humidity has no effect on swing bowling - study

Have there been any further updates on this theory btw? The stillness of the air without convection upflows from the pitch. It should be the next gimmick in cricket coverage if the science of it has been narrowed right down, a camera bringing these little thermals to life right after the toss interviews.
 

Biryani Pillow

U19 Vice-Captain
meh england don't really have any express pace guys to select. Meaker is closest but he ain't that quick or good. other than that there are probably 5 in county cricket who could bowl the odd ball 90mph+ but all are average. I'd agree that the assumption that because it's NZ conditions you could send any county trundler out there and the conditions will suit is disingenous but Woakes has been the most consistent guy in county cricket and deserves the chance regardless of the conditions.
It must be said that your anti Surrey bias is almost Scaley like:sleep:

Actually Meaker os that quick (consistently over 90mph) and pretty good as well.
 

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
It must be said that your anti Surrey bias is almost Scaley like:sleep:

Actually Meaker os that quick (consistently over 90mph) and pretty good as well.
dunno what your talking about. I;m about the most pro surrey non supporter on the forum. All the ODI and T20 games Meaker has played for England he has been around the 85/86/87 mph mark which is quite disappointing given the hype about how quick he was.
 

Meridio

International Regular
Domestic captains have tended to say Eden Park's a big bowl first, Perham's known for leaving plenty of grass on before it plays like an artificial with a concrete base.

Craig Cachopa, 145 vs. Central Districts - YouTube

Cricket: Humidity has no effect on swing bowling - study

Have there been any further updates on this theory btw? The stillness of the air without convection upflows from the pitch. It should be the next gimmick in cricket coverage if the science of it has been narrowed right down, a camera bringing these little thermals to life right after the toss interviews.
Would be pretty hard to narrow down the reason why the ball swings - there's just so many variables; and if you're doing any kind of scientific test you can only modify one at a time to see what effect that has, and weather conditions are complicated systems where lots of things depend on each other so that's not always possible. I mean, I completely understand the aerodynamics of why a ball swings, but every cricketer knows that sometimes the ball just will not move, and that could be because of the ball, or wind, or thermal updrafts, or cloud cover, or atmospheric pressure, or whatever.

Anyway, what are people's thoughts on playing four seamers + Martin? Drop Brownlie (would be harsh, but he'd be closest to the chopping block), McCullum and Watling move up one spot, with Bracewell coming in at number 7. Obviously it depends on Duhg's fitness, but it would ease the workload for our seamers, and given that we've struggled to take 20 wickets recently we might need the extra bowler.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Bracewell coming in a no.7 with four guys behind him who you'd be happy to see score 20 is a very brave call. I can't see them doing it. I don't think I would. I have a horrible feeling we will be 60/5 on the first morning.

Only change I'd think about making would be Bracewell in for Wagner.
 

Meridio

International Regular
Yeah I tend to agree, but I'm a bit worried that our bowlers have bowled a ****load of overs already this series, and flogging them to death on another flat surface could lead to injury problems. Plus I'd like to see us really try and win this test rather than going for a draw.
 

lockton2skipper

U19 Debutant
non of the 3 new zealand seamers could have cause for complaint if they were dropped/rested. boult perhaps the exception. bracewell and gillespie in would have been my pick.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Gillespie looks finished.

Now that I think about it, perhaps four seamers with Martin missing out due to the quickness of the pitch and the short boundaries. Again, a very big, probably harsh, call.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Gillespie looks finished.

Now that I think about it, perhaps four seamers with Martin missing out due to the quickness of the pitch and the short boundaries. Again, a very big, probably harsh, call.
+1.

He's bowled very well but I think horses for course is probably a good approach here. Southee, Boult, Bracewell and Butler or Southee, Boult, Wagner and Butler sounds allright to me.

Butler brings in a bit of batting so I think bringing him in for Martin might be a better idea than Bracewell at this stage.

If they drop Southee I will cut myself.
 
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straw man

Hall of Fame Member
God, I love Jeremy Wells' articles: Jeremy Wells: The simple joys of test cricket at the Basin Reserve - Sport - NZ Herald News.

Let out a huge snort after reading this line, which has caused some funny looks from people at work.

My bladder was full of soft drink. As I urinated in the spacious and user-friendly women's toilets, I felt relieved that test cricket will never die in the capital.
Re: article linked by Kippax above - I'm really not a fan of the recent trend of deciding what we're going to do two days out from the test match. Especially considering that Eden Park hasn't hosted a test for about seven years.
That's a great article by Mr Wells. Also like the comment suggesting test cricket should be played in a park in Auckland and surrounded by a food and wine festival for five days. Sounds very civilised.
 

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