What has been the single biggest contributing factor to Australia's demise?

[Cabinet96]

Tbf, they hadn't won any of their last five tests before that, and won their first three tests after that

 

[Spikey]

Australia have never been the same since JP Duminy arse ****ed them at the MCG Boxing Day test of 2008. There is still tissue damage.

Mike Hussey's fault. ****ing useless **** who should have taken katich's bullet

Mike *Mr Cricket* Hussey - Funniest dropped catch ever !! - YouTube

 

[stephen]

I get your point I really do but... where would Ponting and Hussey have fit into the above team? Something would have changed for sure, like Warner not getting the same chances.

You're right, but in a world where the mid 20s batsmen had stepped up, Ponting would probably have been dropped before he feasted on India last summer. Ponting was in serious decline for a good four years or so and since there was no one putting any pressure on his place in the shield he probably played a good two to three years longer than he would have if his test career took place six years earlier than it did.

Hussey may also never have made it all the way to the home Ashes series where he made all those runs to cement his place in the team. He was in a huge drought of form in 2009 and if there were blokes averaging 50+ breathing down his neck in the shield the selectors may have decided that it was time to change things.

This biggest issues with our batting have been the number 3 and 4 spots, since 2008. Ponting never was the same batsman after the 06/07 Ashes. Hussey and Clarke both had awful runs at #4 and everyone else we've tried in those positions has been even worse.

Our current malaise has been brought on by the fact that our second most experienced batsmen is currently in the worst form of his life and the rest of our top 4 batsmen are either hit and miss (Warner), extremely limited (Cowan) or still in the early stages of their career (Hughes).

I still can't believe that a man with such an impressive career as Phil Jaques is not yet 34... and has retired from Australian cricket. He would be a much better option than Cowan at the top of the order if he was more than a shadow of his former self. I honestly believed at one stage that his efforts would exceed those of Hayden.

Anyway the long and the short of it is that our players currently aren't good enough. I have faith that Warner and Hughes at least will have long, successful test careers. Clarke is already amazing and Henriques has a lot of potential. It's not all doom and gloom. Watson is probably the most overrated test match player of all time and really needs to find some form. Cowan is very limited, which is a shame because he's such a likable guy, you want him to become a gun 45+ averaging bat, but he'll probably end his career with an average around 35.

There are a couple of fringe players who are beginning to emerge in the shield. Maddinson is probably a couple of seasons away from being pickable, but he has a lot of time on his side. Burns is looking very good, making lots of runs playing for the state in which it's hardest to make runs. Then again, a couple of seasons ago it was Lynn who was making all the runs. I still have faith that Lynn could come good, he has a lot of natural talent, but right now he's not good enough to play for QLD.

 

[L Trumper]

Has to be the batting. I'd even say someone like Andrew Symonds was pivotal in the batting going south, after he was booted out we were weaker, and we just spent 2 years on him and he was coming really good after the MCG 06 test. 2009 and he is gone, he was becoming destructive at #6. We got Marcus North as a replacement, and that was just abysmal. Jacques is the other, injured and never played again. in that one year 2009, it all changed. We had bowlers, we still have bowlers. By end of 2009 We lost Hayden, Symonds, MacGill and Hogg, and began to enter life with Watson opening, which I think has stuffed the team around ever since that 3rd Ashes 09 test.

2009 is it for me, the year it dawned on us that the cattle in shield cricket just wasnt up it scratch, Hughes came and went, North, McDonald, all tired and failed. Hodge shouldve played again in that year, but didnt happen. Johnson had zero idea in england, it wasnt expected. Tough tough year that was.

Good point. 2009-10 is a far worse situation than now. Team is actually getting better. Obviously not enough quality batsmen, but as long as bowling holds up they are always going to be challenging.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Australia have never been the same since JP Duminy arse ****ed them at the MCG Boxing Day test of 2008. There is still tissue damage.

Think we can call the thread there. Augustus has won it.

 

[Red]

Serious question- who do you guys think are Australia's best top six right now. Putting aside any considerations (idiot/overweight/age etc) other than pure batting ability. Selections should probably still be playing FC cricket, and not retirees like Ponting and Hussey. Realistic selections iow.

 

[robelinda]

Well Watson does average 43 as opener, so i'd give him 3 or 4 tests opening and see if he can maintain it, nothing to lose there, or try him at #3. I dont see Watson scoring test hundreds regularly anyway, i dont think he will last the year in the team, we cant afford a top 4 bat not scoring tons, in a losing team. Hughes is just not a #3, but we have 4 openers and not enough middle order strength. Dunno what to do with Hughes and Cowan to be honest, tough that guys like Ferguson, Bailey and Burns arent belting down the door for a middle order spot. Khawaja surely must be given the #6 spot soon.

I think id go
Cowan
Warner
Watson
Clarke
Khawaja
Bailey or Burns

 

[Justo]

Personally would go with

Hughes
Warner
Khawaja
Voges (with both Burns and Doolan as potential replacements)
Clarke
Watson(has to bowl) or Wade(Watson can't bowl and as a pure batsmen)

Voges nudges the number 4 position. He's got experience in England and has recent form. Also provides a SLA option while being a useful fielder. I'd give him a year (barring Sean Marsh levels of failure) to cement his spot and if he fails hopefully Burns or Doolan will have pushed on.

Watson is on thin ice for me though. He had a poor run as opener post-Ashes and he would have to bowl as well (10 overs max a day though). I'd push him to 6 and give him a run there (license to slog in good situations and can go hard if he's left with the tail). Very tempted to drop him altogether though(he's done little at both FC and Test level for a long time as a batsmen). If I were to drop him I could be tempted to give Wade 6 and bring in another keeper(Haddin or Hartley) at 7.

 

[NUFAN]

Thanks Stephen for the added explanation regarding Ponting and Hussey.

I don't know who the best six batsman are in our country, its too difficult a task and think it depends on if you are picking the best 6 against average teams, best 6 against strong pace attacks, best 6 on spinning wickets or best 6 with an eye to the future.

Clarke and Warner are the only 2 bats that would definitely fit into the best 6 for all the categories.

 

[the big bambino]

Sept 15, Australia will be competent again.

We beat up Keating with baseball bats. Time to get them out again and stud them with rusty nails and swing em hard at the bogan queen's aunty sally of a face.

 

[Coronis]

I think people are over exaggerating the decline, personally. We can't be dominating test cricket all the time, but it seems thats what people expect now? Its not like we're New Zealand/West Indies.

 

[the big bambino]

Everyone accepts that the players aren't as good as those from the recent golden age. If it was just that then we'd all show tolerance and wait for the time they, and the team, improve.

However our lack of playing stocks has coincided with a period of brain dead administration, selection and coaching and unfortunately taken the blame for our failings in those areas. This seems a problem in Aussie sport atm with our men's relay swimming team practically being dragged out in yolks to be publicly humiliated so the administrators can escape the criticism for their part for the poor olympic form of the swim team.

Really the problems with our cricket side became urgent after the 09 ashes loss. We kept faith with that side yet why would anyone think a losing side will be any better 2 years later? Hence we were clubbed in the following ashes and for some reason were surprised at the result. I admit I was too. I expected Eng to win it 5 blot.

Just look at some of the decisions and outcomes our front office has presided over. In Hilditch we had a man who is frankly an imbecile in charge of selection. We had a spinner a match, 17 men squad, the persistence with Ponting as captain so he could repeat his bone headed decisions rather than learn from them. It was obvious he was a shot duck at 3 yet we kept him there. The last ashes showed that Clarke needed some space btwn himself and the new ball yet we kept him at 4 where he would have averaged single figures except for one innings on a road. Now that he's proven himself at 5 we move him back to 4...Or look like we will. We picked Beer on a tweet from Warne.

We kept Hussey when he couldn't make a run yet executed Hughes at the first instance. Then we made plans around Hussey (whom I hate with a passion bcos I think he's a selfish selfish prick) who dumps on us with his "who would have guessed it retirement". Yet if we dropped him and made him hungry - who knows? We overlook Cosgrove bcos he aint photogenic and you would have thought we'd have learned the lesson not to pick part timers in India the last time: Maybe this time then? And Doherty instead of giving O'Keefe a go at least? COME ON!

We are now afraid to make a decision leaving our pace bowlers in the hands of sports scientists with a regime that rewards them for not bowling it seems. We've let the standard of our fc pitches drop and the SS as well. Almost to the point where it wasn't rated by selectors as a form guide. Then why have it?

And what did Cooley and Neilsen achieve as coaches? What has the argus rept achieved except to put a chick on the board? But - you know - well done Sutherland! You banned Mexican waves and beer snakes. You know - fun. But I can see the point. Ever seen how unstable beer snakes are? What if they fall and hit someone on the head?

Cricket in Australia stinks from the head.

 

[greg]

Another factor could be the small number of first class teams in the sense of the limited variety of conditions that their pitches create for players, leading to a generation of samey cricketers with the same strengths and, more importantly, weaknesses. I have read that state pitches don't have quite the variety that they did in the past when this wasn't a particular problem. For all the historic criticism of the English County game, spreading the likely international player base across a large number of teams, would England have won in India if Northamptonshire County Cricket Club had never existed?

 

[benchmark00]

Nah.

 

[NUFAN]

Northamptonshire Country Cricket Club to get an MBE this year.

Big Bambino on the money..

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah.

 

[uvelocity]

someone please inform me of benchmark00's current policy on beer snakes, **** out for the boys and mexican waves

 

[Riggins]

Another factor could be the small number of first class teams in the sense of the limited variety of conditions that their pitches create for players, leading to a generation of samey cricketers with the same strengths and, more importantly, weaknesses. I have read that state pitches don't have quite the variety that they did in the past when this wasn't a particular problem. For all the historic criticism of the English County game, spreading the likely international player base across a large number of teams, would England have won in India if Northamptonshire County Cricket Club had never existed?

i think there's some validity behind this argument, in the sense that pitches across the country are more similar to each other than they have been in the past. Sydney and Perth for example, historically are much more extreme (obviously for different reasons, spin vs pace/bounce) than they have been in the last 10 years or so.

As such there's a little bit less of a test for players on varying surfaces. To what extent, if any, this affects the test teams away performance is anyone guess. Having said that of course, I wasn't really old enough to see any of this with my own eyes, so could all be complete ****, exaggeration etc.

 

[Riggins]

someone please inform me of benchmark00's current policy on beer snakes, **** out for the boys and mexican waves

i would guess pro beer snakes, pro ****, anti-waves. i suspect there would be some flip flopping on the waves issue though.

 

[Riggins]

i would also guess he would like to have 3 openers with 2 new balls.