Clash of the titans, Dhoni vs Bevan

[morgieb]

Doesn't Tendulkar play ODI any more?

Only occasionally I think.

 

[Uppercut]

Hi

No my analysis had nothing to do with Bevan or comparing him with Dhoni. It was about the transformation in Dhoni's batting from his pre captaincy days to his time as captain. Here the comparative figures for strike rate across different size innings are glaring. Have a look

[B]Score        	As keeper	As captain[/B]

10 and below	42             	50
11 to 25	74             	55
26 to 40	108           	72
41 plus      	105           	85

Nah you've misunderstood, I was asking if we could have an equivalent breakdown of the stats about how quickly he scores at each part of his innings for someone else to give the figures some context.

 

[SJS]

Nah you've misunderstood, I was asking if we could have an equivalent breakdown of the stats about how quickly he scores at each part of his innings for someone else to give the figures some context.

Oh I see. Here are Bevan's figures for different size of innings. These are for all matches and not just while chasing. Dhoni's strike rate in brackets/

[B]Score        	Runs	Inns	SR	4/6 %[/B]

0-10          	178	31	49 (50)	25
11to 25      	740	29	64 (55)	24
26 to 40	1435	27	70 (72)	27
41 plus      	4559	42	79 (85)	29

The figures do not surprise since Bevan was never a swashbuckler. As you van see the strike rate at 10 and under is almost exactly the same as Dhoni's; Thereafter Bevan picks up with his nudges, placements and deft running between the wickets while Dhoni is still stuck in the mid 50's/ Only at the 3rd stage (35 to 40) Dhoni catches up to over take in the 40's.

Bevan's acceleration starts earier and the difference between 2nd stage and 3rd is 15 runs per 100. Dhoni starts later and the difference is 30 runs per hundred.

Bevans boundary runs proportion is almost unchanged irrespective of size of innings.

PS : Dhoni's figures are only as captain and only while chasing. I did this just because these were readily available. The figures for all games as captain could be different.

 

[kingpin]

This thread needs a dig!!

Dhoni may end as the best ever ODI batsman!!!His recent exploits are unbelievable!!!

 

[ankitj]

Kohli hasa surely had an effect here. He finished a lot of games off without Dhoni really having to do anything. I am not sure what I am trying to say but to put it vaguely I think Kohli has a hand in Dhoni's recent stats. More importantly, one more reason to say this: Kohli WAC.

The hypothesis is no more valid I believe.

 

[Cabinet96]

I'm beginning to get the feeling Dhoni is a bit of a selfish batsmen in ODI's. He's always happy to promote himself up the order if India have had a good start, but should they collapse he always stays back down the order. I was talking to an Indian fan I know off the forum after the second ODI against Pakistan and he was saying how he thought the whole innings from Dhoni was just about inflating his average. I wouldn't say I totally agree, but it's definitely something to think about.

 

[doesitmatter]

Oh no one more Indian player branded as selfish..oh yes i forgot others play for the team and country

 

[smash84]

I'm beginning to get the feeling Dhoni is a bit of a selfish batsmen in ODI's. He's always happy to promote himself up the order if India have had a good start, but should they collapse he always stays back down the order. I was talking to an Indian fan I know off the forum after the second ODI against Pakistan and he was saying how he thought the whole innings from Dhoni was just about inflating his average. I wouldn't say I totally agree, but it's definitely something to think about.

yeah, I heard some of the indian fans say this as well. But I don't think that you would find them in great numbers

 

[Prince EWS]

IHe's always happy to promote himself up the order if India have had a good start, but should they collapse he always stays back down the order.

I think that's just because he has a defined role as a finisher though. I don't think he does it for his stats; he does it to make the best use out of the team's best batting resource.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think that's just because he has a defined role as a finisher though. I don't think he does it for his stats; he does it to make the best use out of the team's best batting resource.

Perhaps. But Yuvraj and Raina have pretty much the same role though don't they? Yet they're always the ones who are sent out if early wickets are lost.

 

[Prince EWS]

Perhaps. But Yuvraj and Raina have pretty much the same role though don't they? Yet they're always the ones who are sent out if early wickets are lost.

Because Dhoni is better at it; it's more important to have him in his role. He's perhaps a less adaptable batsman than you'd like the best ever ODI player to be for this reason but he knows his role and performs it excellently.

 

[ankitj]

I think Bevan was also selfish. His average is proof of that.

 

[Contra]

Perhaps. But Yuvraj and Raina have pretty much the same role though don't they? Yet they're always the ones who are sent out if early wickets are lost.

Yuvraj is not a finisher anymore, at least he's not restricted just to finishing, there was a time until about 2006/07 he was a finisher because others were taking the higher batting slots, but over the last few years Yuvraj has been one of our main batsmen, so Yuvraj had been promoted so to speak, which is why he bats up the order, Raina is interchangeable with Dhoni, and yes there are times where you wish Dhoni would come before Raina, but I'm not too fussed because Raina is much younger and he should get more opportunities to score big runs, he'll be one of our main bats come WC 2015 and that's why Dhoni is giving him as many opportunities as possible.

Dhoni just knows that whatever position he bats he will score more often than not, so he manages himself accordingly.

 

[Daemon]

Bats himself lower down, selfish, wants to remain not out

Bats himself higher up, selfish, takes advantage of easy conditions

what a hack

 

[centurymaker]

he's a KEEPER - batsman

his job isn't to exhaust himself by potentially batting 30-40 overs an innings to go with 50 overs of keeping.

 

[benchmark00]

he's a KEEPER - batsman

his job isn't to exhaust himself by potentially batting 30-40 overs an innings to go with 50 overs of keeping.

I don't have beef with Dhoni, but this is ridiculous. Do you know how many keepers have opened in one day cricket?

 

[centurymaker]

I don't have beef with Dhoni, but this is ridiculous. Do you know how many keepers have opened in one day cricket?

he has back problems and he is a sort of a batsman who doesn't get out easily in ODIs

 

[Viscount Tom]

He's also a pretty average at best keeper.

 

[Daemon]

he has back problems and he is a sort of a batsman who doesn't get out easily in ODIs

Not exactly relevant..

As for his keeping, he hasn't missed many for India (not many to be taken tbf) but his stumpings and run outs are of pretty high quality. Does tend to miss the occasional edge off spinners from memory though.

 

[ankitj]

Most selfish batsmen as captains : Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Pretty impressive figures for Dhoni. Surprising to see viv's average as captain. It's 10 points lower than his career average!