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New Zealand doom and gloom thread

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
McCullum set to move down the order - Yahoo! New Zealand Sport
Great. So now we need to find 2 new openers instead of 1.
"He applied himself for 240 balls against a top side at the top, but I don't think that's the role that he's going to play best for this team."
No ****. A good opener should apply themselves to face 240 balls per innings on average, not over an entire ****ing series.

So where does he go? Will hesson give him 4 and shaft Taylor to somewhere else? Put him to 5 and bump Brownlie and Watling down? Or 3 and hide Williamson?

He actually averages more with the gloves and at number 7 than anything else...
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think Watling is up to it as a keeper and would prefer he concentrate on his batting, which has looked very solid in this new version of him.

So I wouldn't mind if someone like Ronchi came in (if he is genuinely a good keeper - something I'm yet to be convinced of)
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
No ****. A good opener should apply themselves to face 240 balls per innings on average, not over an entire ****ing series.

So where does he go? Will hesson give him 4 and shaft Taylor to somewhere else? Put him to 5 and bump Brownlie and Watling down? Or 3 and hide Williamson?
Of these, the last option is the only one that works for me, with Williamson at 5 and Brownlie at 6, Watling at 7.

But then what happens if/when Ryder returns?

And who are going to be our 2 new openers?
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Also, I have serious questions about whether McCullum can make the side as a middle order bat when Taylor and Ryder return, especially with Watling and Brownlie performing recently.
For as much as I've derided him lately, I've been generally supportive of McCullum in the past, but this just does my head in. Where does he expect to bat? He's managed to push up his average as a specialist bat iirc, but he still averages 35 and isn't that consistent. I don't think he should displace Taylor or Williamson, who are more talented, will have better careers and will provide more for us in their preferred positions. McCullum flirted with being specialist number 3 before going back down the order, then wanted to open. He's changed his game, and we've had another player (Watling) change his as well. I imagine McCullum won't be taking the gloves back up, so I think, realistically, 3 is his best option, but that displaces Williamson. he could go 5 and bump the others down, but what happens to Ryder when he comes back?
 
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NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Of these, the last option is the only one that works for me, with Williamson at 5 and Brownlie at 6, Watling at 7.

But then what happens if/when Ryder returns?

And who are going to be our 2 new openers?
Indeed. Maybe they'll get Watling to open and bring in Ronchi? Then who else? Continue with Guptill?

If Baz takes up the gloves again i'd be overjoyed, tbf. Would solve a couple of issues. Not likely, though.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
He's changed his game, and we've had another playing (Watling) change his as well.?
Yes, this is the most annoying thing.

Watling and pretty much everyone in the team has worked around him.

Remember when we picked actual domestic openers to open for the team? Maybe that will happen again. I suppose that's a good thing.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Indeed. Maybe they'll get Watling to open and bring in Ronchi? Then who else? Continue with Guptill?

If Baz takes up the gloves again i'd be overjoyed, tbf. Would solve a couple of issues. Not likely, though.
I wouldn't mind this if they picked some domestic journeyman.

Baz will not take the gloves again.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
For as much as I've derided him lately, I've been generally supportive of McCullum in the past, but this just does my head in. Where does he expect to bat? He's managed to push up his average as a specialist bat iirc, but he still averages 35 and isn't that consistent. I don't think he should displace Taylor or Williamson, who are more talented, will have better careers and will provide more for us in their preferred positions. McCullum flirted with being specialist number 3 before going back down the order, then wanted to open. He's changed his game, and we've had another player (Watling) change his as well. I imagine McCullum won't be taking the gloves back up, so I think, realistically, 3 is his best option, but that displaces Williamson. he could go 5 and bump the others down, but what happens to Ryder when he comes back?
Pretty much agree. Really can't see McCullum being one of the best 4/5/6s in the country - would probably rank around 6th if I cbf writing it down. Remember this is someone who, to his credit, has managed to get through the new ball once or twice in all our recent series... and then every single time he gets out in the 50s or 60s and doesn't make a hundred.

No point whatsoever in the rest of the lineup going through contortions so that we can maximise the output of one of our lesser batsmen.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I think he could actually do better as an opener than anywhere else. I think the fact he currently has a weak opening partner makes him look a lot worse. Find him a decent partner and he may do better? When combos get settled and know each others game, get on the same wavelength etc they can be devastating together or provide each other with enough base after getting a start for one of them to go on when the other gets out for less. Chopping and changing doesn't settle much...
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Giving McCullum keeps getting out to left arm spin over and over and over again, I don't see how moving him further down the other is meant to help, especially since he's clearly the best opener available.
 

Blain

U19 Captain
On the Radiosport headlines this morning, they said Hesson wants Baz in the middle order, but doesn't want to promote Watling to open. WTF? How is that going to work. TBH I wouldnt mind seeing Ronchi at 7 and Watling with McCullum opening, rather than Guptill and say Fulton opening.

They are now seeming desperate to get Ryder back, and are meeting with him in a couple weeks. I wouldn't mind seeing Jess say "piss off, sort your own sh*t out." But really we need him.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
On the Radiosport headlines this morning, they said Hesson wants Baz in the middle order, but doesn't want to promote Watling to open. WTF? How is that going to work. TBH I wouldnt mind seeing Ronchi at 7 and Watling with McCullum opening, rather than Guptill and say Fulton opening.
This means they want to drop Flynn and they're going to persist with Guptill.

haha.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
On the Radiosport headlines this morning, they said Hesson wants Baz in the middle order, but doesn't want to promote Watling to open. WTF? How is that going to work. TBH I wouldnt mind seeing Ronchi at 7 and Watling with McCullum opening, rather than Guptill and say Fulton opening.

They are now seeming desperate to get Ryder back, and are meeting with him in a couple weeks. I wouldn't mind seeing Jess say "piss off, sort your own sh*t out." But really we need him.
Hey remember when Bracewell got random middle order players to open? I do hope for Brownlie's sake that Hesson isn't going to emulate that line of thinking.Edit: or even Williamson...
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, assuming that Ryder isn't back for the England series, this probably means Hesson is targeting the following top 7:

Opener A
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Brownlie
Watling

That lineup leaves the team worryingly light on bowling options, although I suppose Brownlie can dribble down some medium pace in a pinch.
 

jcas0167

International Regular
Yeah, assuming that Ryder isn't back for the England series, this probably means Hesson is targeting the following top 7:

Opener A
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
McCullum
Brownlie
Watling

That lineup leaves the team worryingly light on bowling options, although I suppose Brownlie can dribble down some medium pace in a pinch.
Ryder to open in a David Warner/Sehwag style attacking role.
 

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
So how about:

Brownlie/Fulton
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
McCullum
Watling
Vettori
Bracewell
Southee
Boult

Not the line up I'd personally go with but I get the feeling that's what they're aiming for.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Brownlie cannot play the new ball. He's good at exploiting the older ball with tired bowlers so he needs to stay at 5 or 6.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Ploy to keep Taylor out? McCullum wants to move to 4, Brownlie can't be dropped after tonning up. You need Watling at 6 to allow for Vettori at 7 and 4 quicks.

Jams up the middle order so Hesson can justify not picking Ross.


1. Ryder/Fulton/Whoever
2. Guptill
3. Williamson
4. McCullum
5. Brownlie
6. Watling +
7. Vettori

#TinFoilHat
 

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