The Art of Leg-spin (Wrist Spin) in a dfficult place ?

[Spikey]

seems weird kid qadir would come live in australia, only to go live in south australia

 

[benchmark00]

seems weird kid qadir would come live in australia, only to go live in south australia

I'm lead to believe he's a massive Glenelg Tigers fan in the SANFL.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Abdul Qadir played for Carlton fifteen years ago. If there was a spinner and a pace bowler bowling together, he would supposedly get someone to run out every over, so he could change from helmet to hat for the spinner, and vice versa.

 

[smash84]

btw remember the last time we exported a leg spinner turned out to be ****s is an understatement.

lol....so true

 

[Spark]

Tahir does give it a rip, doesn't he?

Badree would be an ideal example of a new non-spinning leggie.

Legspin is hard work. You only really get good at it when your older, and the only way a young legspinner is going to persisted with is if pitches and conditions suit his bowling. A glut of limited overs cricket, flatter pitches, fast outfields, big bats, all do not help that.

Tahir bowls so flat, though. Even disregarding the fact that he barely knows where the next one will pitch, or indeed if it will pitch, (which is a pretty big thing to disregard, sure) he won't beat top class bats in the air. And without that he won't take top order wickets.

EDIT: Though this has been said repeatedly in this thread already

 

[Kippax]

Usman Qadir, August 2012 - YouTube

Ish Sodhi, FC Wickets So Far - YouTube hah, another one out of the footmarks yesterday. I want some better umpiring on his lbws or some faster and sharper turn off the straight, dammit.

 

[Chubb]

I'm sure it has been said before but there are quite a few leg spinners around compared to the last few decades, the difference is there is no stand-out big ripping all-star there.

Most leggies around now are top spinning it so it doesn't turn much, or at least not as much as we are conditioned (through watching Warne) to thinking leg spinners get.

I believe coaching orthodoxy is to teach young leg spinners to bowl it faster, at which point some lose it completely and others turn into top spinners looking for accuracy.

We have to accept the number of leg spinners who can combine lots of turn with accuracy is vanishingly small.

 

[Top_Cat]

Love everything north of 1 minute in that YT clip of Qadir.

We have to accept the number of leg spinners who can combine lots of turn with accuracy has always been vanishingly small.

Yep.

Seriously, Warne was a freak. Bowling leg-spin is hard.

 

[SFB]

Still not sure what Bishoo did to be discarded. Though he had quite a bit of potential.

Have to agree with this. I got quite excited during the World Cup last year watching him. Sad to think he'll be overshadowed by Narine, rathet than them being paired up.

Tahir does give it a rip, doesn't he?

He does, but his leg break is delivered from near vertical which negates the revs and turn he can get. His delivery stride and follow through lacks any real power and makes him look like a roller and he defaults to his wrong-un'.

The classic case of overspin bowlers. Totally agree. Kumble was deadly, because he gave it a mighty rip, but once he gave it top spin, it did not turn much

Summed up my thoughts on the subject perfectly. In regards to Kumble, and to his credit, he constantly looked to improve his leg break and in the later stages of his career had developed his pretty decent LB.


In Australia, the biggest problem we have (besides all the Warne clones that go past the vertical and are therefore ****ed wrist medium pacers) is that our successful bowlers (Warne, MacGill, McGrath, Lee) have put nothing back into the coaching aspect of the game.
Not one of them has pursued a position at the AIS, not one has volunteered or put their hand up to become a selector etc.

I mean for petesake, the head spin coach at the AIS is John Davison!!! (Victorian who hit a great century at the WC in '07 playing for Canada, is a fine Batsmen, but was a part time off spinner! That's who've we placed the future of spin bowling in Australia in.

 

[Prince EWS]

John Davison was a bowler, dude. He's more famous for his innings for Canada than anything else for that reason but it was more or less a fluke; he was a bowler who batted down the order whenever he played for serious cricket sides. Would've played a lot more First Class cricket - as a bowler - if he was born a few years later, too.

 

[benchmark00]

Nah Davison is a batting allrounder.

 

[Andre]

John Davison was a bowler, dude. He's more famous for his innings for Canada than anything else for that reason but it was more or less a fluke; he was a bowler who batted down the order whenever he played for serious cricket sides. Would've played a lot more First Class cricket - as a bowler - if he was born a few years later, too.

This.

And the guy is also a very good coach. Might not have an outstanding record as a FC cricketer but communicates well and thinks about spin bowling very well. Mechanically had a wonderful action, the fundamentals of his game were very strong.

 

[SFB]

John Davison was a bowler, dude. He's more famous for his innings for Canada than anything else for that reason but it was more or less a fluke; he was a bowler who batted down the order whenever he played for serious cricket sides. Would've played a lot more First Class cricket - as a bowler - if he was born a few years later, too.

I will admit, I have only seen him bowl in footage of a shield match between NSW and Vic from about '98 or '99. That's the problem I have though, he was never tested as a bowler of substance on the international stage, never played internationally in a test side, so why is he employed to shape our next top Test match spinner from the crop going through the AIS? Mentality wise, he has no insight into the test arena and mechanically, he was a very round arm offie, which unless it comes naturally to a player, limits the insights he can give to other bowler's regarding their actions, lines, etc.

 

[benchmark00]

Davison was undoubtedly a batting allrounder, the reason he batted at around 7/8 (from memory) for SA in first class cricket was because SACA didn't have a better spinner getting around and they thought they could put another bat there and just bowl handy offies.

Just because you're not a world beater doesn't mean you can't teach very well. It's not very often that the world's best players become the world's best coaches.

Ash Mallett is the best off spin bowling coach I've come across.

I think we could do with a few more leg spinning coaches though.

 

[SFB]

Davison was undoubtedly a batting allrounder, the reason he batted at around 7/8 (from memory) for SA in first class cricket was because SACA didn't have a better spinner getting around and they thought they could put another bat there and just bowl handy offies.

Just because you're not a world beater doesn't mean you can't teach very well. It's not very often that the world's best players become the world's best coaches.

Ash Mallett is the best off spin bowling coach I've come across.

I think we could do with a few more leg spinning coaches though.

I agree totally. You don't have to be a world beater to be a great coach.

I just think that if your trying to mould quality test cricketers, the absolute best situation for them coaching wise is a high quality former test cricketer.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah Davison is a batting allrounder.

Nah, absolute bull****. He was a bowler Canada used as a pinch hitter to open their innings, and because it came off they kept trying it, and South Australia tried it a few times in one day cricket as well. He was nothing more than an effective pinch hitter as a batsman though.

He played 31 First Class games or Victoria at the start of his career, in which he didn't bat above 8 once in the first innings of a game, regularly found himself coming at 9 below David Saker and/or Paul Reiffell and even spent a game batting 11 below Shane Warne. In that period he averaged eight with the bat in 42 innings. In his first game for South Australia (which happened after all that, obv) he batted 10 below Ryan Harris. He was 32 years old. You're going to tell me that a 32 year old who had played 30+ First Class games batting 8-11, bowling a ****load of overs every game and averaging 8 with the bat was a batting allrounder??

After that World Cup innings for Canada he did get some opportunities batting higher in one day cricket, and he may have even been picked to bat six or seven at some point in a First Class game after that (I cbf manually looking at any more scorecards though itbt) but it didn't work out at all - the innings was a flash in the plan - and all this happened in his mid to late 30s anyway. If he was ever a batting allrounder (which I contend anyway tbh) it was very late in his career.

The bloke was a bowler. His most famous/successful contribution came with the bat, but that doesn't change that fact.

 

[benchmark00]

You're right about the Warne clone thing btw. Very right, and a very good point that I often talk about IRL.

Leg spin isn't meant to be bowled how Warne bowls it so people trying to mimic him is doing more harm than good for the Australian spinning stocks.

Yeah yeah I'm biased etc... but MacGill has the classical leg spinners action, and more people should be trying to emulate his technique rather than Warne's. Warne is too high and it shouldn't be taught to kids like that.

 

[benchmark00]

Nah, absolute bull****. He was a bowler Canada used as a pinch hitter to open their innings, and because it came off they kept trying it, and South Australia tried it a few times in one day cricket as well. He was nothing more than an effective pinch hitter as a batsman though.

He played 31 First Class games or Victoria at the start of his career, in which he didn't bat above 8 once in the first innings of a game, regularly found himself coming at 9 below David Saker and/or Paul Reiffell and even spent a game batting 11 below Shane Warne. In that period he averaged eight with the bat in 42 innings. In his first game for South Australia (which happened after all that, obv) he batted 10 below Ryan Harris. He was 32 years old. You're going to tell me that a 32 year old who had played 30+ First Class games batting 8-11, bowling a ****load of overs every game and averaging 8 with the bat was a batting allrounder??

After that World Cup innings for Canada he did get some opportunities batting higher in one day cricket, and he may have even been picked to bat six or seven at some point in a First Class game after that (I cbf manually looking at any more scorecards though itbt) but it didn't work out at all - the innings was a flash in the plan - and all this happened in his mid to late 30s anyway. If he was ever a batting allrounder (which I contend anyway tbh) it was very late in his career.

The bloke was a bowler. His most famous/successful contribution came with the bat, but that doesn't change that fact.

Nah look you're wrong. He wasn't of first class batting or bowling standards, but I've worked with people who have played and coached with him and they will all tell you his primary skill is as a batsman, it just so happened that off spin bowling is easier to do to an acceptable standard than batting at first class level. He may have looked like he was selected as an off spinner... but he's a batsman who bowls.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah not buying it. Will trawl though grade cricket scorecards later if I can be bothered but I don't think you're worth it. Taste it.

 

[benchmark00]

You can trawl through as many scorecards as you want ****, humans > scorecards.