*Official* English Football Season 2012-13

[flibbertyjibber]

Nasri clearly more at fault for the 3rd goal than Hart. If he doesn't move and then flick his leg at it half heartedly then the ball never gets that far anyway. Typical French surrender monkey, no bottle.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Nah. Keepers might save them sometimes but I wouldn't even say they're mistakes. First he's caught out but it's a great reverse from Rooney and I think his positioning's fine. Second is deflected through a crowd of players at pace and in off the bottom of the post. This 'keeper's side' bollocks is bollocks, there's no way keepers can just leave one side for the wall to defend. It's as if he's supposed to just stand on his side for free kicks going to the other corner just in case Nasri does the can-can and deflects it to the opposite corner.

Not really having the Hart backlash, to be honest. He's not ****ing Superman but he's the best keeper in the league and it's not close.

If that's the case why do keepers even stand on one side in the first place? The reason is fairly clear.

The first goal was probably the worse of the two though. You're right he's caught out but whose fault is that? If every keeper was caught out every time someone put it in the opposite corner every game would finish 5-5. Neither are 'mistakes' as such but they're both piss poor goalkeeping.

Hart isn't close to being the best keeper in the league. I don't really get you with goalkeepers tbh, Hart has made at least as many high profile errors as De Gea in the last year (might even be more tbh, though he has played more games as well tbf) yet De Gea is League One and Hart is the best keeper in the league?

 

[Uppercut]

If that's the case why do keepers even stand on one side in the first place? The reason is fairly clear.

I'm aware of why there's a wall but let's not oversimplify. The optimal position doesn't give him a 100% chance of saving a shot on that side and a 0% chance of saving a shot on the other side. Of course he shouldn't be conceding many on his side but when it's going into the opposite corner before taking a deflection off a stray leg in the wall I think we'll make an exception.

I don't remember hearing any of this criticism when De Gea let one in from Mata on that side. And that may just be the price you pay for saves like the one he made from Mata at 3-3 last season.

The first goal was probably the worse of the two though. You're right he's caught out but whose fault is that? If every keeper was caught out every time someone put it in the opposite corner every game would finish 5-5.

Well no, because it gives Hart a great chance when Rooney smashes it into the other corner. As everyone in the ground was expecting him to, I think. There were two defenders blocking the shot into the corner where he scored; when he gets it past both of them, you probably just have to say well done. It's exactly the same intuition as you've used for the second.

They both boil down to the same thing- keeping is all about positioning and positioning is a percentage game. Hart's been beaten on his positioning twice today but, trying not to be results-oriented about it, I think both times his positioning was fine. The clear shot into the near corner looked far more of a threat for Rooney's first and you can't really account for what Nasri did for RVP's.

And I think his positioning's very good generally too. But if you don't agree I can't really argue, it's just a judgment I've made from watching him constantly bail Citeh out over the past 18 months. Keeping is really subjective.

Hart isn't close to being the best keeper in the league. I don't really get you with goalkeepers tbh, Hart has made at least as many high profile errors as De Gea in the last year (might even be more tbh, though he has played more games as well tbf) yet De Gea is League One and Hart is the best keeper in the league?

I just think this is nonsense. De Gea's made far more outright mistakes, probably had a few more "maybe could have done better" moments, and far, far less world-class stops.



EDIT: Oh jesus, just clicked reply and saw a wall of text, I'm turning into Ikki. Balls.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Can't believe how stupid Clichy was to give away the ball in the position he was in to set United up for that free kick. I don't even care about Nasri, Clichy is a ****ing idiot and I'm so ****ing sick of watching his ******** ass float around the pitch like a piece of ****. Nutmegged and out of position on both of the first two goals as well. Get ****ed.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

That Everton game finished excitingly.

Not seen Moyes that pumped up since he scored twice at Maine Road.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm aware of why there's a wall but let's not oversimplify. The optimal position doesn't give him a 100% chance of saving a shot on that side and a 0% chance of saving a shot on the other side. Of course he shouldn't be conceding many on his side but when it's going into the opposite corner before taking a deflection off a stray leg in the wall I think we'll make an exception.

I don't remember hearing any of this criticism when De Gea let one in from Mata on that side. And that may just be the price you pay for saves like the one he made from Mata at 3-3 last season.



Well no, because it gives Hart a great chance when Rooney smashes it into the other corner. As everyone in the ground was expecting him to, I think. There were two defenders blocking the shot into the corner where he scored; when he gets it past both of them, you probably just have to say well done. It's exactly the same intuition as you've used for the second.

They both boil down to the same thing- keeping is all about positioning and positioning is a percentage game. Hart's been beaten on his positioning twice today but, trying not to be results-oriented about it, I think both times his positioning was fine. The clear shot into the near corner looked far more of a threat for Rooney's first and you can't really account for what Nasri did for RVP's.

And I think his positioning's very good generally too. But if you don't agree I can't really argue, it's just a judgment I've made from watching him constantly bail Citeh out over the past 18 months. Keeping is really subjective.



I just think this is nonsense. De Gea's made far more outright mistakes, probably had a few more "maybe could have done better" moments, and far, far less world-class stops.



EDIT: Oh jesus, just clicked reply and saw a wall of text, I'm turning into Ikki. Balls.

You used to make much longer posts before you gave up on Cricket Chat tbf.

 

[Ikki]

EDIT: Oh jesus, just clicked reply and saw a wall of text, I'm turning into Ikki. Balls.

You're not near as smart or handsome ****.

Liverpool, Liverpooooooool. Jonjo Messi!

 

[cpr]

Yeah Upper****, stop dribbling on the keyboard

 

[Woodster]

Hart really is ****. You could put literally any other keeper in the league in City's net and the 1st and 3rd goals would not have happened.

Ha ha, am presuming this really is a joke post ??

 

[roseboy64]

I think you already know that I do.

Fs, we're getting killed today. Not having a defence is such a major handicap in these games.

I know but you're massively harsh. Seemingly missing their mostly good games.

Why, because as a United fan he dares to be critical to their players rather than defending them to the hilt?

No. I'd be the first to tell you Valencia's been rubbish this season and Rio's been off a bit.

 

[Uppercut]

Don't even think either of those things are true. It's almost as if you haven't watched United often at all .

 

[roseboy64]

Don't even think either of those things are true. It's almost as if you haven't watched United often at all .

Valencia hasn't been woeful? Not with his Downing-like run down the wing, stop and play the ball back antics?

 

[cpr]

Valencia hasn't been woeful? Not with his Downing-like run down the wing, stop and play the ball back antics?

This is something I've noticed, when he's not on his best he tends to get towards the edge of the area, stop, hold it up, hope Rafael's made a run, then pass it back towards Carrick.

Was doing it a bit against City, before finally making one pass on the full back after about 70 minutes or so. Was infuriating me.

Thought Rio played well on Sunday though.

 

[Uppercut]

Valencia hasn't been woeful? Not with his Downing-like run down the wing, stop and play the ball back antics?

So what you're saying is, he's terrible because he regularly gets us to the other end of the pitch before keeping the ball.

Valencia's really quite direct, you should see how often Iniesta does that. If we'd signed Nasri you'd probably have killed yourself by now.

 

[roseboy64]

Valencia got player of the year last season by getting into those areas but actually doing something positive with it like embarrassing his marker and getting balls into the box that the strikers didn't have to work to make a chance out of.

 

[Furball]

Valencia hasn't been woeful? Not with his Downing-like run down the wing, stop and play the ball back antics?

I hate it when fans make dumb complaints like this.

Turning back and passing to a team-mate is a far better option than an aimless punt into the box.

 

[Uppercut]

If there's one thing we've learned from the unprecedented success of Spain and Barcelona it's that the one true hallmark of a bad player is often passing the ball sideways.

 

[Uppercut]

The worst ones are the ones that run to the other team's end of the pitch before doing it. I call those ones "Downing-esque".

 

[cpr]

The issue I have with Valencia sometimes is the ball into the box is on, but when he's not on his game he very clearly lacks the confidence to try and take the defender on, or get the ball in. He can actually look like a lost deer for a few split seconds before he gets rid. Whilst keeping the ball is nice, taking the momentum out of a great break is frustrating.

His panic reminds me of Andy Cole when he'd had 2 touches and not shot yet, the idea of actually thinking about what to do next killed him.

 

[Nate]

Ahahahaha Bradford! Full strength Arsenal team and everything. Awesome scenes at the end.