Ross Taylor likely to be shafted from the captaincy?

[Neil Young]

It's painfully obvious Hesson and White threw the whole "Test captaincy" bit in at the 11th hour realising how farcical it would look to strip Taylor of it after he inspired them to a rare away win. Hesson was utterly unconvincing in his attempts to clarify the misinterpretation around that point.

I'm not normally such a fan of Tony Veitch, but felt he handled all 3 of those interviews with the right level of inquiry and he didn't seem to miss anything major.

I kind of agree re Veitch but the question he glaringly ommited was 'did you not think to tell Ross he was still captain of the test team when you told him of the recommendation you were about to make to dump him as captain?' it would have clearly lessened the fall and made what Hesson was saying a little easier to hear. It's the obvious question that Hesson needs to answer.

As you say, Hesson clearly didn't have this in mind at the time and he's lying through his ****ing teeth now. Gimp.

Taylor then screwed Hesson's planned coup by playing two captain's knocks and winning us a test against the odds. I really think Hesson is an odious little scrotum. McCullum is culpable to an extent as well. **** them both.

 

[BeeGee]

Yeah, passive. Pfft. Didn't back up Ross at all, did he. Given the shambles and the fact that he'll be captaining in RSA without his best batsman, I'd expect anyone in this situation to say "thanks, but no thanks". How can a reasonable man take this job now? He's guilty by association. He doesn't have to have said or done anything, but he hasn't backed up his team mate and supposed friend.

I thought it a bit weird when talking about this whole thing that he was insulted by the accusations, and made it entirely about himself. Didn't say anything about Taylor directly, or even that he would back him up and stuff. And when he talked about their relationship it wasn't exactly warm and glowing. Seem like two completely different people who are forced to interact through a common interest.

Agree with these posts. I'm happy to accept McCullum wasn't a major player in this saga, but he didn't back Taylor up at all and by the looks of what's happening in the media now the only beneficiary of this whole sorry saga is going to come out of this smelling like roses.

I noticed a little Freudian slip in his media statement the other day:

Brendon McCullum hits back at criticism | Stuff.co.nz

"I had absolutely no involvement in that recommendation whatsoever. I was asked if I would lead the one-day and Twenty20 team two days ago, and yesterday I was asked if I'd lead the test team after Ross turned it down. That's about as much involvement as I've had in the entire situation."

What does "about" mean? He didn't say that's all the involvement he had had, he said that's about as much involvement as I've had.

I need to put my conspiracy theory av back on.

 

[hendrix]

you're really clutching at straws here.

 

[hendrix]

Cricket: NZ dispirited under Taylor - Sport - NZ Herald News

This article is such bull**** and doesn't make sense:

The Herald on Sunday spoke to some of the best minds in New Zealand cricket, many closely placed to the team. The picture consistently painted - and there are two schools of thought on the Taylor issue - is of a coach who thought change had to be made if performance was to be lifted; change which couldn't wait

Ok, so then why offer him the test captaincy at all?

Naturally not a loquacious leader, Taylor could afford to speak less under former coach John Wright, who conducted more dressing room talk. Hesson prefers to leave it to the captain

And Taylor prefers to leave it to the coach...Who's wrong here?

"Without doubt (it had to happen)" was a phrase used by one source in relation to of Hesson's decision. There was also a strong school of thought that stressed Taylor was honest, loyal and had no hidden agendas. There were those in the team prepared to follow him but there was no question, sources said, that some in the team were tiring of his captaincy style

"tiring of his captaincy style"? You're not ****ing playing cricket for leisure mate. It's a bloody job. You don't have to enjoy his captaincy.

To Taylor's credit, he was using his initiative to improve himself privately but the damage had been done. The bowlers were a particular case study. It was suggested there was not enough encouragement or empathy as they went about their toil. Some would argue an angry bowler hungry to get wickets to please a glaring skipper is a good thing, but it had become overused as a strategy

Yes. An overused strategy that has consistently got the best out of the bowlers for the past 6 months and turned Southee from a pie chucker to the form swing bowler of the world.

There is no dispute he produced the runs but Hesson apparently felt leadership of an international sports team required more, given the side is basically a second family much of the year.

Again, why offer him the test captaincy if he's so convinced he's no up to it?

 

[Viscount Tom]

They're basically in the pocket of the board.

 

[hendrix]

They're basically in the pocket of the board.

I don't know if money would've changed hands but I can definitely see a couple of board members wanting to anonymously give themselves support after the bashing they've taken.

 

[SilentOne]

White is a bald headed lying ****wit, **** him off!

 

[Flem274*]

They're basically in the pocket of the board.

Nah, while the Herald has its fair share of moronic writers and readers, Alderson is quality. If that was Rattue I would have disregarded it but Alderson knows his stuff.

 

[Flem274*]

Anyway, that article raises some good points, however

-was Taylor given enough time to improve?
-what will make McCullum a good captain that Taylor doesn't have?

Haven't really seen many answers to number two yet.

 

[hendrix]

Nah, while the Herald has its fair share of moronic writers and readers, Alderson is quality. If that was Rattue I would have disregarded it but Alderson knows his stuff.

Whether Alderson knows his stuff or not doesn't change the fact that the article doesn't make sense.

Problems with his captaincy? Yes, we know. It's been documented.

Not once does he point out that it's the coach's job to work with the players, including the captain, on their deficiencies.

Not once does he point out that it's as much the coach's job as the captain's to gee up the boys - some would say more if you've ever seen american sports movies.



And after all of this, if he's such a terrible captain, why would you offer him the test captaincy?

The argument that Hesson was doing this for the best of the team simply becomes not credible.

 

[Flem274*]

Whether Alderson knows his stuff or not doesn't change the fact that the article doesn't make sense.

Problems with his captaincy? Yes, we know. It's been documented.

Not once does he point out that it's the coach's job to work with the players, including the captain, on their deficiencies.

Not once does he point out that it's as much the coach's job as the captain's to gee up the boys - some would say more if you've ever seen american sports movies.



And after all of this, if he's such a terrible captain, why would you offer him the test captaincy?

The argument that Hesson was doing this for the best of the team simply becomes not credible.

News angle maybe. Everyone else has supported Taylor, so they need to drum up interest somehow. Doesn't matter anyway.

I wouldn't get too wound up by it. The public is set in their opinions already.

You're right though, and when reading that I forgot the lack of support from Hesson to Taylor. I'm working with a hangover here.

 

[Mike5181]

Anyway, that article raises some good points, however

-was Taylor given enough time to improve?
-what will make McCullum a good captain that Taylor doesn't have?

Haven't really seen many answers to number two yet.

He hasn't had much chance to answer yet tbf. He's going to get spanked in South Africa, but if you think Taylor needed more than 16 months to show what he was capable of as a captain, I wouldn't judge McCullum's captaincy after a couple of fill-in games.

 

[Flem274*]

Another article from Alderson

Cricket: Hesson's advice 'laughable' - Sport - NZ Herald News

 

[Jono]

Another article from Alderson

Cricket: Hesson's advice 'laughable' - Sport - NZ Herald News

In a frank interview - though he would not divulge what suggestions Hesson gave him about his captaincy - Taylor gave a sense of the loneliness of a cricket captain to whom few people would talk.

As confidant, he seems only to have had Martin Guptill on tour to talk to - even though his grandmother, who helped raise him, had died during the cricket team's tour of Sri Lanka.

Playing devil's advocate here... is it possible Taylor really did not have good man management skills? I mean ffs no one would talk to him.

 

[hendrix]

Playing devil's advocate here... is it possible Taylor really did not have good man management skills? I mean ffs no one would talk to him.

Absolutely possible. Likely, even.

That's why you need the support of your coach and your senior players to help you out in that regard.

 

[Jono]

Or alternatively, that's why you need to select a captain with good man management skills?

Again, playing devil's advocate here, and it does seem that he has been treated absolutely awfully in this whole saga so I don't want to look like I'm anti-Taylor here. BUT... its not the coach's job to ensure the captain (who was already in charge when the coach was appointed) to be able to speak to his teammates. The captain, when chosen, should be able to do that at a bare minimum.

Of course the captain should be given a chance to develop and improve, but I'd like to think all captains speak to their players during tours a bit more than Ross seems to have.

 

[benchmark00]

lol Jono supporting Hesson in all this is not surprising in the slightest.

 

[Jono]

I can't help who I am attracted to. Those spectacles.

 

[hendrix]

Or alternatively, that's why you need to select a captain with good man management skills?

Again, playing devil's advocate here, and it does seem that he has been treated absolutely awfully in this whole saga so I don't want to look like I'm anti-Taylor here. BUT... its not the coach's job to ensure the captain (who was already in charge when the coach was appointed) to be able to speak to his teammates. The captain, when chosen, should be able to do that at a bare minimum.

Of course the captain should be given a chance to develop and improve, but I'd like to think all captains speak to their players during tours a bit more than Ross seems to have.

I don't disagree with anything you've said.

In fact, if the coach really thinks his man management skills are not going to improve in time, then it's a very good idea to change captaincy ASAP.

I would have no problem if he genuinely felt a captaincy change was necessary.

But if the situation is such, why then offer him the Test captaincy? It doesn't make sense. Either he's good enough or he's not.

Moreover, if Hesson does think he's good enough for Test captaincy, why tell him that he's not good enough for captaincy before the 2 tests, and then offer it to him after the SL tour? Hesson doesn't think he's good enough but he's going to offer it to him anyway?

 

[Jono]

I think its obvious to all he never offered Ross the test captaincy. Blatant lying.

The timing was awful as well yeah. That's pretty much universally agreed.