***Official*** England in India

[flibbertyjibber]

What a scoreboard. Nightmare for the home team.

Scary thing is that India know these two can go on and on and on as you know from two years ago. It might not be the most inspiring batting to watch but it is bloody effective.

 

[GotSpin]

Oh dear

 

[Burgey]

I don't find it scary at all tbh. It's TLC I think (damn unpretty) but it gets the job done.

It's also really funny.

 

[Howe_zat]

11.01am Thirty-two overs in that session for no wicket and 80 runs. England won't mind that careful session because they will open up soon. Cook goes on, thanks, in part, to that dropped catch from Ishant, one of the easiest return catches you will get. Go on does Trott too, looking good for his first century of the series.

Yoda on the cricinfo commentary again

 

[smash84]

just saw the score.....wow

 

[Burgey]

And by funny, I mean it's funny because when India copped a pasting away the powers that be there said it's all ok because they're about to play at home for a lot of the time so everything would be ok. Numbskull Kohli said it too.

Anyway, I do think it's a bit harsh to criticise Zaheer too much as regards bowling at 77mph or so. He was bowling at or about that pace for a few years now and he's been pretty effective, more so away than at home mind you.

Besides, you really don't have anyone better. I mean, there's Sreesanth, but he'll just come off the bat faster. Zaheer is probably the least of your worries. Get rid of the mindset where the captain gets to state what type of pitch he wants and tries to influence it. Instead, try developing a team which doesn't need a rank turner to have a show of winning (the last test notwithstanding). Soft as butter.

When India was number one or on the way to it, they competed well away and won series in different conditions, or at least drew them. It wasn't that long ago ffs.

 

[cnerd123]

Can't bat, can't bowl, can't field.

Lets summarise shall we? A good innings from Sachin, ended by a good ball, and a good innings from MSD given the situation.

Useless running from Gambhir, and then poor shot to end what looked like a good innings. Good bowling from Panesar got rid of Pujara, and from Anderson to get rid of Kohli, yet they both could have done better. They played loose. Yuvi threw it away. Tail can't wag barring Ashwin, who almost ran out MSD with what really was a pathetic effort from him.

And then the bowling is hopeless. Useless. Meek.

Dropping catches and lazy, un-athletic fielding doesn't help at all.

Ashwin has been terrible this series. Zak is fading. Ishant hasn't taken a wicket in what feels like years - always 'looks' good when bowling but can't buy a wicket to save his life. Ojha is trying, but he's not as good an SLA as Rehman, Herath and even Panesar. It's depressing.

And why are we this way? Where is all the talent that this massive, rich, cricket-mad country should be producing? And why are these established, supposedly World-Class players performing so poorly?

Cricketers being paid a huge amount regardless of their on-field performances could be one. Overworking them could be another - they could be fatigued physically and mentally.
Maybe a lack of desire to perform? No incentive to fight for your spot when there is a lack of competition from reserve players on the bench. I mean, even if India lose this...there are no feasible changes you could make in the playing XI barring dropping Yuvraj that could make the team stronger. And that's the worst part.

And why is that? Is there a lack of exposure to difficult conditions and situations in FC cricket? One would expect Indian bowlers to be used to bowling at set batsmen on flat tracks though. That's something they should be good at.

Maybe it's the calendar and point system in FC cricket, which encourages sides to set up shop and bat on and on for high first innings scores to secure points. Akash Chopra goes into detail on that here:
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Leads to untested batsmen, bowlers cutting down on their pace and venom in order to extend their playing lives, flat economical spinners being favoured over good ones, and an emphasis on bowlers who can bat. Players don't go all out for a win, don't play with high intensity, and that becomes a bat habit that sits with them at Test level.

Maybe Ranji cricketers aren't being pushed enough to increase their levels of fitness and commitment to being full-time cricketers? Cosgrove got dropped from Australia for being too fat, Patel's selection was put on hold until he lost weight. Would India ever do that?

Or does it go deeper than Ranji, to the grassroots level? Are our School-level and Junior-level coaches not imbibing the right skills and mentality into the youngsters? Are we not teaching them to spin the ball with their body, to value their wicket, the play the ball late, to bowl with pace, to field like your life depended on it?

Or maybe it's all the big money to be made in the IPL? Encourages players to work on their big hitting and containing bowling rather than the skills needed to succeed at Test level - although the recent BCCI plans on dealing with uncapped players in the IPL is a step in the right direction.

Maybe it's the selectors? Persisting with failed players and seniors who are over the hill, too scared of offending the Public and the Media, not blooding youngsters at the right times, and at the same time making inconsistent selections when it goes to sides like India A, therefore never sending a clear message on who is in the frame for the National team and who isn't?

What is it? What's going wrong? For a country as large as India, with as much money and resources it has in Cricket, with so much domestic cricket going around and such a long pool of talent...they should not be so ****. 8-0 away from home and now being bashed by England at home as well.

Granted they're still doing well in ODIs and beat NZ and WI recently...but NZ and WI aren't much of a challenge are they now? India shouldn't be satisfied with being mid-table, they should have their expectations at Top 3, if not number 1.

Sure, India could still go on to win this match. They could still go on to win the series. But it definitely doesn't look like it at this stage.

Is this a temporary blip? Maybe what one could call the 'Transition Phase' with Dravid and Laxman having just left recently, Harbhajan falling out of form, and Sehwag/Sachin/Zak all past their best? Or is the sign of what is to come in the years ahead unless the BCCI gets their act together and sort things out?

 

[Arjun]

Besides, you really don't have anyone better. I mean, there's Sreesanth, but he'll just come off the bat faster. Zaheer is probably the least of your worries. Get rid of the mindset where the captain gets to state what type of pitch he wants and tries to influence it. Instead, try developing a team which doesn't need a rank turner to have a show of winning (the last test notwithstanding). Soft as butter.

When India was number one or on the way to it, they competed well away and won series in different conditions, or at least drew them. It wasn't that long ago ffs.

There are options. Pankaj Singh and Parvinder Awana are amongst the wickets and also decently experienced. I don't believe it is the players, but management that is responsible for poor performances, decline and eventual loss of their best players. While other teams have restored form of flagging players, India have just dumped them, or done nothing to help them out.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

With Cook, Compton and Trott at the top if this order, I'm going to be doing a lot of sleeping in front of the TV this Ashes...

 

[Burgey]

There are options. Pankaj Singh and Parvinder Awana are amongst the wickets and also decently experienced. I don't believe it is the players, but management that is responsible for poor performances, decline and eventual loss of their best players. While other teams have restored form of flagging players, India have just dumped them, or done nothing to help them out.

True to an extent but it's early days since Dravid and Laxman went. They were great players. Not easy to replace by any stretch.

I'll have to take your word for the other bowlers, I've not seem them

 

[Arjun]

True to an extent but it's early days since Dravid and Laxman went. They were great players. Not easy to replace by any stretch.

I'll have to take your word for the other bowlers, I've not seem them

Follow the links to the Ranji Trophy and look up the wickets tally, or those of Delhi and Rajasthan, then look up the pages on Awana and Punk.

Not too long ago, the fans and experts alike said that it is time to dump Sachin, Laxman and Dravid, and also Sehwag and Gambhir. They got their wish (to some extent- Dravid and Laxman stepped down) in the home series against NZ. They thought it worked out. But can they now also phase out Sachin (he won't retire, as his cue is the selectors dropping him!) as also Sehwag and Gambhir? It now seems risky- according to Dravid, India needs Tendulkar 'more than ever'- but now?

 

[Arachnodouche]

Things like batting and bowling are influenced by different variables and can be excused to a certain extent. But when the richest board in the world, having access to the latest in technology and knowledge, consistently puts out a bunch of fat, unathletic chumps to represent it on the field, then you know there's a far deeper root cause to it all. Nepotism, inflated egos, taking things for granted, call it what you will. All fans ask for is 100% effort, but when you see some guy unable to bend down and pick up the ball at the rope because of a few spare tires, well..there's nothing left to support. Time to root for the opposition that's actually working its ass off.

 

[Noble One]

Fair overreaction in this thread. India haven’t been brilliant; however dropping half your team for a bunch of first class journeymen is a touch extreme.

Having watched quite a bit of this series – England have simply played out of their skins post the first Test. One of the more impressive efforts in recent years given the past history of England in such conditions/against such attacks.

 

[cnerd123]

Sachin merits his place in the side. There is no one in the fringes who could come into number 4 and definitely do a better job, and he's still one of the better fielders in the side.

Same goes for Zak as a bowler. I would like to replace him, get some fresh legs on the field, but none of Ishant/Vinay Kumar/Munaf/Mithun/Aaron are going to do any better than him. Praveen Kumar and Yadav could make a decent pairing though. And Mithun/Aaron are young and haven't been ruined yet.

As for Gambhir/Sehwag...well same thing really. Sehwag merits a spot in the side if they play at home, his home record has been fairly decent over the last couple of years, but if we want to phase him out then it must be done by letting the new opener settle in at home (or somewhere like BD, Lanka or the Windies). And who will this new opener be? Mukund? Vijay? Neither have grabbed their chances really. Vijay did for a while, but has slipped out of reckoning. Dhawan could be too old to consider, would only be a short-term solution.
Gambhir has just scored 2 fifties in a row too, including one when the whole lineup was falling around him. Can't drop him now can we?

 

[Spark]

Oh geez, the drop. Just sort of lobbed it back to him.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

One of the fat unathletic chumps has stood up to be counted in that session, Yuvraj has done really well on a few occasions stopping balls he had no real right getting to. The Sehwag instalments dive was hilarious though. Can't really blame Sachin as he is really old and was a great fielder by some of the rests standards in his younger days. Why the hell is Pujara at slip with the pads on again though? Silly mistakes and as Nasser says the 1% things like that all add up.

To illustrate the 1% thing, Monty, Finn and Anderson were having a batting net during lunch. Would Zaheer and Ishant do that if India were in the same position?

 

[smash84]

Can't bat, can't bowl, can't field.

Lets summarise shall we? A good innings from Sachin, ended by a good ball, and a good innings from MSD given the situation.

Useless running from Gambhir, and then poor shot to end what looked like a good innings. Good bowling from Panesar got rid of Pujara, and from Anderson to get rid of Kohli, yet they both could have done better. They played loose. Yuvi threw it away. Tail can't wag barring Ashwin, who almost ran out MSD with what really was a pathetic effort from him.

And then the bowling is hopeless. Useless. Meek.

Dropping catches and lazy, un-athletic fielding doesn't help at all.

Ashwin has been terrible this series. Zak is fading. Ishant hasn't taken a wicket in what feels like years - always 'looks' good when bowling but can't buy a wicket to save his life. Ojha is trying, but he's not as good an SLA as Rehman, Herath and even Panesar. It's depressing.

And why are we this way? Where is all the talent that this massive, rich, cricket-mad country should be producing? And why are these established, supposedly World-Class players performing so poorly?

Cricketers being paid a huge amount regardless of their on-field performances could be one. Overworking them could be another - they could be fatigued physically and mentally.
Maybe a lack of desire to perform? No incentive to fight for your spot when there is a lack of competition from reserve players on the bench. I mean, even if India lose this...there are no feasible changes you could make in the playing XI barring dropping Yuvraj that could make the team stronger. And that's the worst part.

And why is that? Is there a lack of exposure to difficult conditions and situations in FC cricket? One would expect Indian bowlers to be used to bowling at set batsmen on flat tracks though. That's something they should be good at.

Maybe it's the calendar and point system in FC cricket, which encourages sides to set up shop and bat on and on for high first innings scores to secure points. Akash Chopra goes into detail on that here:
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Beyond the Blues | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
Leads to untested batsmen, bowlers cutting down on their pace and venom in order to extend their playing lives, flat economical spinners being favoured over good ones, and an emphasis on bowlers who can bat. Players don't go all out for a win, don't play with high intensity, and that becomes a bat habit that sits with them at Test level.

Maybe Ranji cricketers aren't being pushed enough to increase their levels of fitness and commitment to being full-time cricketers? Cosgrove got dropped from Australia for being too fat, Patel's selection was put on hold until he lost weight. Would India ever do that?

Or does it go deeper than Ranji, to the grassroots level? Are our School-level and Junior-level coaches not imbibing the right skills and mentality into the youngsters? Are we not teaching them to spin the ball with their body, to value their wicket, the play the ball late, to bowl with pace, to field like your life depended on it?

Or maybe it's all the big money to be made in the IPL? Encourages players to work on their big hitting and containing bowling rather than the skills needed to succeed at Test level - although the recent BCCI plans on dealing with uncapped players in the IPL is a step in the right direction.

Maybe it's the selectors? Persisting with failed players and seniors who are over the hill, too scared of offending the Public and the Media, not blooding youngsters at the right times, and at the same time making inconsistent selections when it goes to sides like India A, therefore never sending a clear message on who is in the frame for the National team and who isn't?

What is it? What's going wrong? For a country as large as India, with as much money and resources it has in Cricket, with so much domestic cricket going around and such a long pool of talent...they should not be so ****. 8-0 away from home and now being bashed by England at home as well.

Granted they're still doing well in ODIs and beat NZ and WI recently...but NZ and WI aren't much of a challenge are they now? India shouldn't be satisfied with being mid-table, they should have their expectations at Top 3, if not number 1.

Sure, India could still go on to win this match. They could still go on to win the series. But it definitely doesn't look like it at this stage.

Is this a temporary blip? Maybe what one could call the 'Transition Phase' with Dravid and Laxman having just left recently, Harbhajan falling out of form, and Sehwag/Sachin/Zak all past their best? Or is the sign of what is to come in the years ahead unless the BCCI gets their act together and sort things out?

pretty good post with a lot of good questions.

Very difficult to say what really is wrong but it sure seems that the Indian team's temperament for test cricket seems to have come down somewhat. The batsmen seem much more impatient, the bowlers seem to bowl flatter lines too. But of course that doesn't describe it all.

Is there any real structure at the grassroots level in India. Here in Pakistan there isn't any at that level. Whatever structure we do have at the domestic level is pretty **** from what I know. Xuhaib probably knows more about the domestic structure here in Pakistan. It does have an aura of mystery around it

 

[Furball]

Oh geez, the drop. Just sort of lobbed it back to him.

Hilarious, wasn't it?

 

[Spark]

At a bare minimum, Sachin looks like he gives a ****. That alone wins him many a brownie point.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Sanjay talking about McCullum at the right time, smart guy