The Case for Kallis

[Furball]

Meh, so what? Every player no matter how great has a flaw in their record part from maybe Bradman. Tendulkar has a pretty poor record against Donald and Pollock and Lara too against Waqar and Wasim.

McGrath and Warne are overwhelmingly the greatest test bowling pairing of the last 20 years. Tendulkar and Lara both averaged over 50 against them and helped their side win matches. Kallis played in a South African team that was utterly dominated by Australia and personally had a very poor record against Australia. That matters far more than Kallis bashing crap attacks.

 

[hendrix]

Kallis average in Australia against Australia until 2007 is 48.

 

[centurymaker]

And Tendukar was bowled off a no ball against Siddle too last year. The only difference was that he couldn't cash in.

Tendulkar probably yes due to his longevity. Btw, Kallis is 37 now which is the same age Tendulkar started to decline in.

firstly it was dravid who was bowled off a no-ball, not tendulkar.

tendulkar and lara always had decisions gone against them in Aus. (umpires tended to target the best batsman of the opposition untill a decade or so ago).

Another thing I want to mention about Lara and tendulkar- often enough when they looked set for a big score in Aus or Eng, unfortunately for them their team-mates crumbled around them and they eventually threw away/lost their wicket for a half-decent score while batting with the lower order. Hence, they sometimes didn't have a fair shot at a big score.
If your line-up isn't doing well, it's incredibly hard to maxmize your batting output. (unless you are an opener or something)

tendulkar had his best year in terms of numbers at the age of 37. (2010/11)

he turned 38 right after the world cup win last year. that's when his output started to decline.

the reason kallis isn't rated as highly is that he never really stood out as a batsman before the 2010/11 india/sa series.

 

[centurymaker]

Kallis average in Australia against Australia until 2007 is 48.

you forgot to add the strike of less than 40.
hence why he never stood out.

 

[kyear2]

I think people are getting bent out of shape for nothing, I or no one else is saying that Kallis isn't a legit top tier ATG batsman and probably the second greatest All Rounder of All Time. All I am saying is that I rate Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting higher.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Maybe it's because Dravid plays for a more high profile country, and also has nearly always done well in English conditions, and England control a lot of the media.

.

Don't know if they control the media so much..for cricket Indian media has far greater control..

 

[centurymaker]

I think people are getting bent out of shape for nothing, I or no one else is saying that Kallis isn't a legit top tier ATG batsman and probably the second greatest All Rounder of All Time. All I am saying is that I rate Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting higher.

exactly.

kallis a ATG no doubt about it.
His main attribute is his rock solid defense as far as batting goes.
moreover he is the 2nd best batting all-rounder ever.
However, if I needed to pick a batsman from this era, I wouldn't pick kallis ahead of the others, mainly because he's never really been that 'impact' player.

finally I rate him higher than Dravid, who tended to struggle in bouncy conditons.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I think people are getting bent out of shape for nothing, I or no one else is saying that Kallis isn't a legit top tier ATG batsman and probably the second greatest All Rounder of All Time. All I am saying is that I rate Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting higher.

Today with you on this.
For me the best batsman of our generation are
Lara Tendulkar
followed very closely by Ponting
followed very closely by Kallis

Then the rest.

 

[tooextracool]

The more I've watch off Kallis over the recent years, where ever you may rate him as a batsman, the more I've come to the realization that he might very well be one of the greatest cricketers ever. Whatever way you want to look at it, the guy has managed to play cricket consistently for 17+ years for South Africa as an all rounder while playing all formats of the game and still averaging over 55 with the bat in tests. It is rather miraculous how he has managed to maintain his fitness and that he is still going strong. Also, I think he is rather underrated with the bat, largely because he doesn't have the kind of demographics to support him on this forum, but also because of his style of play. There are few players who could have been brilliant irrespective of whether they played as bowler or batsman and one can only imagine how good he would have been if he gave up one form to focus on the other. I suspect that history will look back at Kallis with more fondness than he is at the moment everywhere outside South Africa.

 

[Inferno]

firstly it was dravid who was bowled off a no-ball, not tendulkar.

tendulkar and lara always had decisions gone against them in Aus. (umpires tended to target the best batsman of the opposition untill a decade or so ago).

Another thing I want to mention about Lara and tendulkar- often enough when they looked set for a big score in Aus or Eng, unfortunately for them their team-mates crumbled around them and they eventually threw away/lost their wicket for a half-decent score while batting with the lower order. Hence, they sometimes didn't have a fair shot at a big score.
If your line-up isn't doing well, it's incredibly hard to maxmize your batting output. (unless you are an opener or something)

tendulkar had his best year in terms of numbers at the age of 37. (2010/11)

he turned 38 right after the world cup win last year. that's when his output started to decline.

the reason kallis isn't rated as highly is that he never really stood out as a batsman before the 2010/11 india/sa series.

Yeah right. That's utter crap. Yeah sure they might have had some decisions go against them but to suggest its always happened is just stupid. Most of them is just Tendulkar fanboys making excuses which they always do. If I recall there is a list or something out there with every single Tendulkar decision that's gone against them or was a close call. So that just tells you something right there.

Yeah there were some one that were pretty bad like the Bucknor one against Gillispie in 03 but most of the ones I have heard complains about like the shoulder before wicket one against Mcgrath or the sydney test lbw in 99 were plain out.

Plus its not they didn't do the same in India:
Disgusting umpiring in India- Ricky Ponting out LBW- ball doesn't even hit the pad!!! 1998 - YouTube

Its happened to everybody. Tendulkar and Lara are nothing special and thinking that is just being a fanboy. I bet nobody goes around making lists of every bad decision he's survived. Like the one against SA in 2010 where he went to score 146 just to give throw one of the important ones out there.

You play enough it will happen to everybody.

And all that sounds like a bunch of excuses about teammates crumbling and such and such. Lara maybe for the later part of his career but India has always had strong batting line up. If you really wanna bring that up take a look at how many of thousands of of runs Tendulkar has scored in big scoring games where it basically looked like they were playing cricket on roads. Like his double hundreds against Australia in 2003 or 2010 just to give you examples. And even if that were true (which it is not) there are advantages to batting in weaker teams like not having to accelerate your scoring to push for wins. Someone like Chanderpaul for example would hardly ever face that kind of problem.

Yeah and that was and the no ball wicket was Dravid that was a mistake on my part. But still doesn't change my point . Blaming Kallis for runs after no ball wicket makes about as much sense as asking for all of Tendulkar's runs back after a dropped catch.

You seem to be making excuses after excuses to make Kallis' performances look bad and Tendulkar/Dravid's look good. Must say its getting kind of silly now and there seems to be a more and more of a cricinfo comments vide behind every one of your passing posts now.

And no the reason Kallis is not rated highly is because he is not that entertaining of a player from a very underrated team who neither has a huge fanbase and gets large media coverage from their country. If he were from one of the more countries with a bigger voice (India, Pakistan, England, Australia) he would have been given the respect he deserves. It wouldn't of mattered that he wasn't entertaining. The fact that of non entertaining players those countries like Cook who gets all kinds praises or the fact that Dravid was so highly rated before the India series despite being just as slow proves that. I would have rated Kallis ahead of him probably even before 2010. He was averaging 55 before the the India series.

 

[centurymaker]

Yeah right. That's utter crap. Yeah sure they might have had some decisions go against them but to suggest its always happened is just stupid. Most of them is just Tendulkar fanboys making excuses which they always do. If I recall there is a list or something out there with every single Tendulkar decision that's gone against them or was a close call. So that just tells you something right there.

Yeah there were some one that were pretty bad like the Bucknor one against Gillispie in 03 but most of the ones I have heard complains about like the shoulder before wicket one against Mcgrath or the sydney test lbw in 99 were plain out.

Plus its not they didn't do the same in India:
Disgusting umpiring in India- Ricky Ponting out LBW- ball doesn't even hit the pad!!! 1998 - YouTube

Its happened to everybody. Tendulkar and Lara are nothing special and thinking that is just being a fanboy. I bet nobody goes around making lists of every bad decision he's survived. Like the one against SA in 2010 where he went to score 146 just to give throw one of the important ones out there.

You play enough it will happen to everybody.

And all that sounds like a bunch of excuses about teammates crumbling and such and such. Lara maybe for the later part of his career but India has always had strong batting line up. If you really wanna bring that up take a look at how many of thousands of of runs Tendulkar has scored in big scoring games where it basically looked like they were playing cricket on roads. Like his double hundreds against Australia in 2003 or 2010 just to give you examples. And even if that were true (which it is not) there are advantages to batting in weaker teams like not having to accelerate your scoring to push for wins. Someone like Chanderpaul for example would hardly ever face that kind of problem.

Yeah and that was and the no ball wicket was Dravid that was a mistake on my part. But still doesn't change my point . Blaming Kallis for runs after no ball wicket makes about as much sense as asking for all of Tendulkar's runs back after a dropped catch.

You seem to be making excuses after excuses to make Kallis' performances look bad and Tendulkar/Dravid's look good. Must say its getting kind of silly now and there seems to be a more and more of a cricinfo comments vide behind every one of your passing posts now.

And no the reason Kallis is not rated highly is because he is not that entertaining of a player from a very underrated team who neither has a huge fanbase and gets large media coverage from their country. If he were from one of the more countries with a bigger voice (India, Pakistan, England, Australia) he would have been given the respect he deserves. It wouldn't of mattered that he wasn't entertaining. The fact that of non entertaining players those countries like Cook who gets all kinds praises or the fact that Dravid was so highly rated before the India series despite being just as slow proves that. I would have rated Kallis ahead of him probably even before 2010. He was averaging 55 before the the India series.

tldr. looks like you have written more trash in 'one post' than there is in the entire thread.

 

[Inferno]

tldr. Looks like you have written more trash in 'one post' than there is in the entire thread.

omg sachin always get screw over by umpire its so unfair. its already bad enough he has to deal with the pressure of millions on his shoulders.

 

[centurymaker]

quite glad I switched on the ignore feature.

 

[Inferno]

McGrath and Warne are overwhelmingly the greatest test bowling pairing of the last 20 years. Tendulkar and Lara both averaged over 50 against them and helped their side win matches. Kallis played in a South African team that was utterly dominated by Australia and personally had a very poor record against Australia. That matters far more than Kallis bashing crap attacks.

There is hardly that much difference between McGrath and Warne and other greats so singling them out is just naive. I fail to understand Kallis failure counts more than than Tendulkar's failure against Donald and Pollock or Lara's faliure against Wasim and Waqar.

South Africa overall were still the 2nd best team in the ATG Aussie era. There are things they have accomplished which gets unmentioned like being the first to beat India in India.

 

[Inferno]

quite glad I switched on the ignore feature.

I think you would be even more glad if you started posting on cricinfo/youtube comments instead of wasting your time on forum pages.

Not doing a very good job of ignoring if you are still reading my posts.

 

[Daemon]

how predictably boring this thread has become.

 

[Top_Cat]

Sounds like someone I know.

 

[Jono]

The more I've watch off Kallis over the recent years, where ever you may rate him as a batsman, the more I've come to the realization that he might very well be one of the greatest cricketers ever. Whatever way you want to look at it, the guy has managed to play cricket consistently for 17+ years for South Africa as an all rounder while playing all formats of the game and still averaging over 55 with the bat in tests. It is rather miraculous how he has managed to maintain his fitness and that he is still going strong. Also, I think he is rather underrated with the bat, largely because he doesn't have the kind of demographics to support him on this forum, but also because of his style of play. There are few players who could have been brilliant irrespective of whether they played as bowler or batsman and one can only imagine how good he would have been if he gave up one form to focus on the other. I suspect that history will look back at Kallis with more fondness than he is at the moment everywhere outside South Africa.

No doubt if Kallis was Aussie, English or Indian he'd be held in higher esteem. Said it for years.

Same goes for Pollock.

 

[benchmark00]

Nah. Pollock's overrated on here.

 

[Daemon]

Sounds like someone I know.

I was going for that tbf

But seriously, can't have an appreciation thread without ****s ruining it by stats picking. Worst thing about cricket.