• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official*** Australian Domestic Thread 2012/13

stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Cricket has always been a game of politics. When I first started playing I was always astounded by how little form is regarded and how much "I rate him" is regarded when it comes to team selection.

The fact of the matter is that there is little difference in skill between players +- two grades of where you're playing. The opening bowlers are 10 kph quicker in 4th grade than they are in 6th grade and they're 10kph quicker in 2nd grade than they are in 4th. But the change bowlers in 3rd grade aren't as good as the openers in 4th and possibly even 5th grade.

The difference between batsmen is even less. And spinners... spinners get picked in the wrong grade and mismanaged for all sorts of reasons. Flat, big turning spin is rewarded over well flighted, deceptive spin because the former looks more impressive and is more economical. Never mind that even Shane Warne said that spinners have to beat the batsman in the air because they never will off the pitch.

And the biggest crime of all in a grade cricket club is to be the wrong side of 23 (unless you have been in the club since your teenage years). If you're 26 or older when you join a club, you pretty much cannot get a game below 4th grade because 6th and 5th grades are for "developing the juniors". Never mind that park cricket is a much tougher place to learn your craft as a batsman. In park cricket you don't get value for your shots. Drives along the carpet are rarely seen due to the fields being so slow. You get much tougher wickets to bat on. You face two piece leather instead of 4 piece. Park cricket effectively adds 10 kph to a bowler's pace due to the two piecers and poor quality turf wickets. And because of this spin is even more poorly supported in park cricket, unless you happen to live in a very dry, hot climate.

Still, cream rises to the top. Individual players sometimes don't get the recognition that they deserve, but most first and second grade squads are pretty close to the best sides that those clubs can field.
 
Andre

Andre

International Regular
stephen said:
Cricket has always been a game of politics. When I first started playing I was always astounded by how little form is regarded and how much "I rate him" is regarded when it comes to team selection.

The fact of the matter is that there is little difference in skill between players +- two grades of where you're playing. The opening bowlers are 10 kph quicker in 4th grade than they are in 6th grade and they're 10kph quicker in 2nd grade than they are in 4th. But the change bowlers in 3rd grade aren't as good as the openers in 4th and possibly even 5th grade.

The difference between batsmen is even less. And spinners... spinners get picked in the wrong grade and mismanaged for all sorts of reasons. Flat, big turning spin is rewarded over well flighted, deceptive spin because the former looks more impressive and is more economical. Never mind that even Shane Warne said that spinners have to beat the batsman in the air because they never will off the pitch.

And the biggest crime of all in a grade cricket club is to be the wrong side of 23 (unless you have been in the club since your teenage years). If you're 26 or older when you join a club, you pretty much cannot get a game below 4th grade because 6th and 5th grades are for "developing the juniors". Never mind that park cricket is a much tougher place to learn your craft as a batsman. In park cricket you don't get value for your shots. Drives along the carpet are rarely seen due to the fields being so slow. You get much tougher wickets to bat on. You face two piece leather instead of 4 piece. Park cricket effectively adds 10 kph to a bowler's pace due to the two piecers and poor quality turf wickets. And because of this spin is even more poorly supported in park cricket, unless you happen to live in a very dry, hot climate.

Still, cream rises to the top. Individual players sometimes don't get the recognition that they deserve, but most first and second grade squads are pretty close to the best sides that those clubs can field.
Click to expand...
Disagree.

There is a pretty fair jump in every grade, and a huge difference in skill. Everything in each grade happens better, quicker and for longer than the grade below. It is a huge jump. I'll never forget how tired I was walking off the field at the end of my first day in 1st grade - the insensity was like nothing I had experienced before. It is a huge difference from 2s, which is a huge difference from 3's and so on.

I can't speak for every club but there was no way the one I was at fielded the best available sides when you say that the 'cream rises'. In fact, I was told I'd be a grade or 2 higher if I wasn't 'who I was', it's just the way it goes. You're either one of the boys and conform, or you are strong enough as an individual to stand on your own 2 feet - but you'd better be an exceptional cricket if you want to do that cause you'll never win a line ball selection call.
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Andre said:
Disagree.

There is a pretty fair jump in every grade, and a huge difference in skill. Everything in each grade happens better, quicker and for longer than the grade below. It is a huge jump. I'll never forget how tired I was walking off the field at the end of my first day in 1st grade - the insensity was like nothing I had experienced before. It is a huge difference from 2s, which is a huge difference from 3's and so on.

I can't speak for every club but there was no way the one I was at fielded the best available sides when you say that the 'cream rises'. In fact, I was told I'd be a grade or 2 higher if I wasn't 'who I was', it's just the way it goes. You're either one of the boys and conform, or you are strong enough as an individual to stand on your own 2 feet - but you'd better be an exceptional cricket if you want to do that cause you'll never win a line ball selection call.
Click to expand...
It seems that you are making my argument for me. Most players probably could survive a grade above where they're playing without embarrassing themselves. That doesn't mean that they'd turn into Ricky Ponting if they played a grade below either. Some players do get shafted, but overall the quality of players is higher the higher level you go.

There is a difference between the grades and it is noticable, but the numbers I gave were about right. At a guess, a quick bowler in firsts will bowl somewhere around 130, in thirds 120 and in fifths 110.

At a steady pace a 130 kph ball travels the length of the pitch (20m), a 120 kph ball will travel 18.5m and a 110 kph ball will travel roughly 17m. In truth, air resistance means that each of these balls slow down significantly over the length of the pitch and the faster the ball, the more it slows. There is some truth to the old adage of a bowler having an "extra yard of pace".

The question is, if you were a fast bowler, would you prefer to be first change or an opening bowler? A lot of quicks who are good enough to play higher don't, because they want to take the new ball and particularly if you've got an opening bowler as a captain, you'll get a lot less overs as first change than you will as opener, especially on green wickets. Similarly, better batsmen sometimes are forced to play below their standard to make way for young kids. But overall, the quality is higher in the higher grades and that can only be the case if the players are, overall, better in the higher grades.
 
Riggins

Riggins

International Captain
Andre said:
Disagree.

There is a pretty fair jump in every grade, and a huge difference in skill. Everything in each grade happens better, quicker and for longer than the grade below. It is a huge jump. I'll never forget how tired I was walking off the field at the end of my first day in 1st grade - the insensity was like nothing I had experienced before. It is a huge difference from 2s, which is a huge difference from 3's and so on.
.
Click to expand...
completely agree. Think that the gap between grades increases with every level you go up, probably in every sport.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Everyone's seen a lot of that behaviour described in the article.

The one thing is that, if you are in the top 5 or so trainers at the club on a Tuesday and Thursday night, then you'll always get more leeway in terms of selection, and even if you're a different guy, you'll still get respect from the rest of the players, IMO. Even if you do SFA the rest of the week.
 
benchmark00

benchmark00

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Peter Nevill, Scott Henry, Nic Maddinson, Michael Clarke (c), Steven Smith, Brad Haddin (wk), Moises Henriques, Steve O'Keefe, Trent Copeland, Josh Hazlewood, Doug Bollinger with Daniel Hughes 12th man

Ed Cowan, Mark Cosgrove, Alexander Doolan, Ricky Ponting, Aiden Blizzard, Tim Paine, James Faulkner, Luke Butterworth, Jason Krejza, Jackson Bird, Adam Maher with Sam Rainbird 12th man.


NSW batting. 450 par.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Update from the ground

Tassie looking to bounce out Maddinson; two men on the hook. Looking nervous to start.
Nev's lbw looked high.
 
B

brockley

International Captain
Mathew Hanna NT paceman to WA,Daniel Rootes ACT spinner to Sydney.
Not such a good start,if i was to tip i would have gone for a Blues win.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top