**Official** South Africa in England 2012

[Valer]

Fully agree with the comment with it being knee jerk of the highest order to touch line up, unless the have fitness problems / niggles. You don't bowl this many sides out cheaply without having something worth persisting for more than 1 innings.

Eta as much as it seems like a dodge who I'd bring in would depend on who was left out.

 

[social]

Dropping a bowler after the oppo has racked up 637/2 is hardly a knee-jerk

In fact, it should be a given

 

[Spikey]

it really shouldn't

 

[wpdavid]

He was once he got Barath in the first test, as Sparko rightly said, initially he looked a little down on pace & intent. It all seemed to click once he'd taken one.



TBH, Onions would be third on my list of the serious options, unless (God forbid, etc) Jimmeh went down. There is a slightly sameyness to our seam attack (especially since Chris jr started bowling a fuller line) and Onions, much as I love him, wouldn't change this.

I'm a massive Tremmers fan, so would play him without hesitation, but it'd be hideously unfair on Finn were he leapfrogged after being our best bowler in the Oz ODI series and having taken 20-odd FC wickets in the five games he's played this season.

I don't think Tremlett is anywhere near his best yet, although at least he's playing again.


I suppose there's a range of approaches after this sort of debacle. Perhaps the likeliest is the 2005-after-Lords approach, when Fletcher stuck with the guys who'd performed well during the preceding series, and that worked out well enough.

However, when an attack has barely troubled anyone apart from Alvero Peterson - and by rights, Smith should still have been batting when they declared - then there's something to be said for asking the batsmen some different questions next time around. I certainly wouldn't play five bowlers, as I don't think Prior is a test number 6. I suppose it comes down to who would SA least like to face, and I don't think the answer is Tim Bresnan. I also think that Headingley has long since stopped being the trundlers' paradise that justified guys like Mallender and Watkin being picked in the early 1990's, so it's Finn for me.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Dropping a bowler after the oppo has racked up 637/2 is hardly a knee-jerk

In fact, it should be a given

it really shouldn't

Not a given, perhaps, but the selectors wouldn't be doing their jobs if they just ignored the performance.

There are legitimate points to raise:

1) Sameyness of the seam dept
2) Bresnan & Broad looking half ****ed, pace wise
3) Swann failing to be any kind of threat

Back in the day, as the next test is in Leeds, we might've seen a horses for courses pick like Mallender, Watkin or Bicknell.

Richardson is still taking bucket loads for Worcs, one notes.

Semi-serious.

 

[stumpski]

Hasn't the Headingley track changed a bit since those days though?

England regularly used to go into the Leeds Test without a spinner - not sure they'd do that now.

 

[stumpski]

Assuming everyone else is 100% fit, Finn for Bresnan would be my only change btw.

 

[amanuensis]

Headingley is classic "look up, not down" territory - what's the forecast at this stage?

I'd drop Bopara unless he plays a central role today in a famous rearguard (he deserves it for that 2nd morning dismissal).

 

[Spark]

Good to see that England never really left the 90s after all

Surely if you're going to play Bresnan anywhere it'd be at his home deck? Or am I missing something?

 

[Valer]

Not a given, perhaps, but the selectors wouldn't be doing their jobs if they just ignored the performance.

There are legitimate points to raise:

1) Sameyness of the seam dept
2) Bresnan & Broad looking half ****ed, pace wise
3) Swann failing to be any kind of threat

Back in the day, as the next test is in Leeds, we might've seen a horses for courses pick like Mallender, Watkin or Bicknell.

Richardson is still taking bucket loads for Worcs, one notes.

Semi-serious.

In reverse order so i can get the short ones out of the way.

3) Is an issue from before the series... If your comment is swann has been on the decline for a while and I want to try say Panesar again fair enough.

2) Certainly something that should be looked at from a coaching / health Pov. Not droppable for mine.

1) I think that the poor performance is clouding the issue here, pies are pies nomatter who is bowling them.

Surely the drop Ravi calls are a joke hes play 1 match since comming back... It makes the aussie spinner handling look good.

 

[GIMH]

He was once he got Barath in the first test, as Sparko rightly said, initially he looked a little down on pace & intent. It all seemed to click once he'd taken one.



TBH, Onions would be third on my list of the serious options, unless (God forbid, etc) Jimmeh went down. There is a slightly sameyness to our seam attack (especially since Chris jr started bowling a fuller line) and Onions, much as I love him, wouldn't change this.

I'm a massive Tremmers fan, so would play him without hesitation, but it'd be hideously unfair on Finn were he leapfrogged after being our best bowler in the Oz ODI series and having taken 20-odd FC wickets in the five games he's played this season.

Just think Onions is the best bet for Headingley

 

[BoyBrumby]

Good to see that England never really left the 90s after all

TBH, as an England cricket fan, coping with failure followed by impending failure whilst we rearrange the deckchairs as the band plays "Abide with me" as the ship starts to list in the most alarming way is what I do best. It's what I've been raised for.

More seriously, the selectors are far more likely to chop and change the bowlers than the batsmen. Bresnan for Finn in 10/11 the obvious example of a ballsy (and correct) call.

 

[Spark]

That was hardly a kneejerk reaction though.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Get Finn in anyhow

 

[Uppercut]

That was hardly a kneejerk reaction though.

It shows that they weren't afraid to drop their leading wicket taker if they thought it was the right move for the team. Which I liked. Most coaches wouldn't have the balls.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Fully agree with the comment with it being knee jerk of the highest order to touch line up, unless the have fitness problems / niggles. You don't bowl this many sides out cheaply without having something worth persisting for more than 1 innings.

Eta as much as it seems like a dodge who I'd bring in would depend on who was left out.

I'd make a change going on the fact that Bresnan was an injury doubt before this game and Finn is firing on all cylinders. Not like we don't have any options is it?

 

[stumpski]

Good to see that England never really left the 90s after all

Surely if you're going to play Bresnan anywhere it'd be at his home deck? Or am I missing something?

I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I'm not sure there's much evidence for players performing better at their home ground. Ramprakash had a horrible record at Lord's when he was a Middlesex player. It would be tough for Bres to miss out at Headingley, but in the position we're in now we can't afford to worry about upsetting people.


(the sample size is pretty small - Anderson has only played two Tests at OT, one of them against Bangladesh - but Broad has a handy record at TB: 14 wickets at 21 since he signed for Notts. Swann in the same three Tests only took 3-195, but he only bowled two overs in the 2010 match against Pakistan)

 

[uvelocity]

I'd be more worried about Anderson. A couple of early breakthroughs from him would make the rest look a whole lot better by itself

 

[ProteasFan]

4 mins to start and the first session could provide vital for England. We need to get an early wicket I feel to keep up the pressure and demoralise England.

 

[ProteasFan]

I have a bad feeling we won't get 6 wickets