**Official** New Zealand in West Indies

[Hurricane]

Followed it on cricinfo. How did Ellis look out there?

Also Mills 1 run from 6 balls is pretty ****.

 

[thierry henry]

Also, if we were able to knock the tail over competently we would have made short work of both these last two chases, Narine or no Narine. The batting of Russell has extended the WI scores from easy chases to slightly awkward chases, and we have capitulated at the point in between the scores they should have got and the scores they did get.

 

[straw man]

WI were 180/8 and got 241 Russell got 59* from 40 to bring his tally to 130 runs for once dismissed in the series WAFDisgrace. It's a dead rubber but we had plenty of incentive to win and were so much on top that should have been able to close it out.

Our batting is predictably poor and demonstrates that our weak lower order of the last few matches still sucks less than the alternative. What the hell has happened to Mills' batting over the last year?

Roll on the tests - I will probably regret saying this but they cannot be worse than the ODIs.

 

[BackFootPunch]

So when you're a RH batsman and a spinner who turns it both ways is bowling around the wicket to you, is the line he bowls not a strong indicator of which way it's gonna turn?

If Narine pitches it on or outside leg stump, it's probably turning away from you. If it's outside off it's probably turning in. In between those two areas it's tough to pick but he's turning it enough both ways that something pitching on middle will probably miss the stumps so get a decent stride in and smother the ****ing thing.

Even Doully noticed this FFS.

 

[SteveNZ]

We won't knock sides over at the death consistently until we start picking someone with pace. In fact we won't knock over anyone consistently across the board until we do that.

I don't know that our death hitting is horrific, more that we have zero clue of how to collect off Narine. It creates pressure to score against the other bowlers, and to be fair we handled that reasonably well.

Doesn't mean we couldn't have plotted a way to dilute Narine's threat however. Hope they don't think it'll be easier in the Tests simply because we don't have the same scoreboard pressures.

 

[NasserFan207]

So when you're a RH batsman and a spinner who turns it both ways is bowling around the wicket to you, is the line he bowls not a strong indicator of which way it's gonna turn?

If Narine pitches it on or outside leg stump, it's probably turning away from you. If it's outside off it's probably turning in. In between those two areas it's tough to pick but he's turning it enough both ways that something pitching on middle will probably miss the stumps so get a decent stride in and smother the ****ing thing.

Even Doully noticed this FFS.

He was bowling to lower order batsmen though, who usually aren't quick to pick up length or line, particularly with drift involved

 

[BackFootPunch]

We won't knock sides over at the death consistently until we start picking someone with pace. In fact we won't knock over anyone consistently across the board until we do that.

I don't know that our death hitting is horrific, more that we have zero clue of how to collect off Narine. It creates pressure to score against the other bowlers, and to be fair we handled that reasonably well.

Doesn't mean we couldn't have plotted a way to dilute Narine's threat however. Hope they don't think it'll be easier in the Tests simply because we don't have the same scoreboard pressures.

Is there even a bowler in the country with enough pace to actually worry an international lower order?

 

[SteveNZ]

Is there even a bowler in the country with enough pace to actually worry an international lower order?

I'm not neccesarily suggesting there is, unfortunately. But that's a reality.

The theory of 'it's on leg stump, it's a carrom ball' and so on is a sound one, but I hope we can appreciate it's bloody hard to put into practice when the guy is delivering it at you from 22 yards and you have very little time to decipher line, especially from such an angle.

 

[BackFootPunch]

He was bowling to lower order batsmen though, who usually aren't quick to pick up length or line, particularly with drift involved

He bowled 13 balls to Ellis, Southee and Mills, got 2/4.

Bowled the other 47 balls of his spell to Guptill, McCullum, Taylor and Williamson, got 3/24 - and those four are by no means lower order players.

 

[BackFootPunch]

I'm not neccesarily suggesting there is, unfortunately. But that's a reality.

The theory of 'it's on leg stump, it's a carrom ball' and so on is a sound one, but I hope we can appreciate it's bloody hard to put into practice when the guy is delivering it at you from 22 yards and you have very little time to decipher line, especially from such an angle.

Yeah no doubt it's very difficult. Narine is a damn good bowler and needs to be treated accordingly.

But being so good is actually something which helps us out, he's so consistent that the batsmen should be safe enough to play him on line.

Effectively a batsman wants to pick the bowler as early as possible right? Some bowlers you'll know what's coming before they've even delivered it, based on changes in their approach and action etc. Most bowlers you'll pick from the hand. If you can't do that then next best is picking the line and going from there; it's a heck of a lot better than trying to play it off the pitch.

 

[SteveNZ]

That's why I question if we really did our homework to the necessary level. Not that it would surprise me, given we turned up to the tour with zero build-up under our belts.

I keep thinking back to Fleming. He would've found a way I'm certain of it, and still would if he was involved. He did so in the 274* in Sri Lanka, he did so in that Australian series...preparation is so vital. I honestly feel like there was a way we could've kept Narine to 0-30 if we'd looked hard enough.

 

[fishyguy]

With the new group of players Windies will be tougher to beat at home and more competitive overseas. The thing is the difference between WI and NZ is not that big at the moment. Although as a fan and maybe I'm more biased the talent level in WI is more than NZ.

WI also proved against Australia that they have improved and that Australia is an average side now. For me its exciting because their is still tremendous potential from guys like Andre Russell, Barath, Darren Bravo.

ODIs though I want Barath opening with Gayle and Darren Bravo at # 3 instead of Charles and Smith. Definitely want Devon Thomas instead Ramdin. Ramdin looks so lost at international level.

 

[NasserFan207]

With the new group of players Windies will be tougher to beat at home and more competitive overseas. The thing is the difference between WI and NZ is not that big at the moment. Although as a fan and maybe I'm more biased the talent level in WI is more than NZ.

WI also proved against Australia that they have improved and that Australia is an average side now. For me its exciting because their is still tremendous potential from guys like Andre Russell, Barath, Darren Bravo.

ODIs though I want Barath opening with Gayle and Darren Bravo at # 3 instead of Charles and Smith. Definitely want Devon Thomas instead Ramdin. Ramdin looks so lost at international level.

Although Smith has improved hugely he still should never be batting at no 3. I like him as the attacking opener option if Gayle isn't available. Barath should always play ahead of Charles, no idea why the selectors have a hard-on for him. He and Darren Bravo have a ton more potential even if they aren't producing all that much, so should be persisted with.

The other problem is the allrounder thing, there is no room for Pollard, Dwayne Bravo, Russell and Sammy. One or two of those guys need to be replaced by either genuine batsmen or a genuine bowler.

 

[Bahnz]

Didn't realise that Mills had accumulated that many wickets. What a champ. So gutting that he's missed most of the last two world cups. Here's hoping he can hang on and remain effective until the next one.

I agree that New Zealand's efforts against Narine in this series shows a worrying absence of strategic acumen on behalf of both the coaching staff and the players. Narine appears to be a fine bowler, especially in home conditions, but he shouldn't be averaging 11.5 @ 2.9 rpo against anyone.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

What the ****? Left this morning expecting to see a narrow loss, we didn't even get close.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Bring back Ryder and Franklin ASAP

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah, an indisciplined batting lineup incapable of rotating the strike definitely needs another indisciplined batsman incapable of rotating the strike.

 

[_Ed_]

I agree that New Zealand's efforts against Narine in this series shows a worrying absence of strategic acumen on behalf of both the coaching staff and the players.

Absolutely. And the names being bandied about as contenders for the coaching job don't fill me with confidence that it's a situation that's going to improve any time soon.

 

[straw man]

Yeah, an indisciplined batting lineup incapable of rotating the strike definitely needs another indisciplined batsman incapable of rotating the strike.

Yeah Ryder and Franklin's standing has probably perversely benefited from missing this debacle. I'd be more than hesitant to declare they're the answer to these limited-over batting problems though.

 

[SteveNZ]

Absolutely. And the names being bandied about as contenders for the coaching job don't fill me with confidence that it's a situation that's going to improve any time soon.

I'd like to think all three of them would be thorough. Feedback I've heard on Woodhill is good.