***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE

[Woodster]

A defeat in the UAE against Pakistan is a similar performance to Aussies drawing at home to NZ, so don't think they'll be getting too confident just yet. No offence to NZ.

 

[Burgey]

A defeat in the UAE against Pakistan is a similar performance to Aussies drawing at home to NZ, so don't think they'll be getting too confident just yet. No offence to NZ.

At least we got within a dozen runs!

/coldcomfort

 

[silentstriker]

Think the South Africans (the ones playing for SA) are finally going to stop being bridesmaides and have a decent run at the #1 spot.

 

[Woodster]

At least we got within a dozen runs!

/coldcomfort

 

[Woodster]

Think the South Africans (the ones playing for SA) are finally going to stop being bridesmaides and have a decent run at the #1 spot.

The old ones are the best.

Should be an excellent series in England this summer, just one more confidence shattering series in the sub-continent before another early season series against the usually disinterested West Indians (at least it's closer to summertime starting in May).

 

[Teja.]

Pakistan absolutely destroyed England in the first test and bowled them out for less than half the target in the second. Can't it just be that Pakistan is the considerably superior team for the conditions.

When England was rolling India, I've heard the argument advanced that if a team so comprehensively plays better cricket than the other at home, then they're definitely gonna win away as well though not by a ridiculous margin and should be considered better. Say, hypothetically speaking, Pakistan wins comfortably in the third, would this logic hold true?

Not trying to stir or even that I believe in either side but just a thought.

Discuss.

 

[GIMH]

Think the South Africans (the ones playing for SA) are finally going to stop being bridesmaides and have a decent run at the #1 spot.

They'll get whitewashed here in the summer, no doubt about it. Next time we go there should be interesting though, not sure when it is mind.

 

[Woodster]

Pakistan absolutely destroyed England in the first test and bowled them out for less than half the target in the second. Can't it just be that Pakistan is the considerably superior team for the conditions.

When England was rolling India, I've heard the argument advanced that if a team so comprehensively plays better cricket than the other at home, then they're definitely gonna win away as well though not by a ridiculous margin and should be considered better. Say, hypothetically speaking, Pakistan wins comfortably in the third, would this logic hold true?

Not trying to stir or even that I believe in either side but just a thought.

Discuss.

We were woeful in the first Test, and had an awful session or so towards the end of the fourth day in this second Test but played some very good cricket up to that point and seemed in control of the game.

I can't see anything to agree with in your second paragraph. If a team comprehensively beats another side at home they're definitely going to win away ? Don't think you can say that about anything in any sport.

 

[Teja.]

I can't see anything to agree with in your second paragraph. If a team comprehensively beats another side at home they're definitely going to win away ? Don't think you can say that about anything in any sport.

So would you say it'd be ridiculous on the part of an English fan to hold the opinion that, after demolishing India in England, they're gonna beat them away as well?

Again, intentionally playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Woodster]

So would you say it'd be ridiculous on the part of an English fan to hold the opinion that, after demolishing India in England, they're gonna beat them away as well?

Again, intentionally playing devil's advocate here.

It may be that England could beat India away aswell, but not solely because we hammered them over here. There are several reasons why someone would believe we could win in India, and while the hammering we gave them over here will help confidence-wise, it's a completely different game in India.

 

[Jono]

That Cricinfo article about how horrid England's record in Asia was after the first test just got worse.

Was following the scores on my phone. Can't believe it. Wow.

Congrats to Pakistan.

England batsmen and playing spin in Asia still clearly an issue.

 

[Jacknife]

Think the South Africans (the ones playing for SA) are finally going to stop being bridesmaides and have a decent run at the #1 spot.

I don't know, it's only just taken them 3 years to chalk up a home series win , I think the team that's going to be #1 is going to have to be awesome at home and pick up as many win abroad as possible.

 

[R_D]

England..

This series doesn't really count in the eyes of English players/ fans anyway...
We all know they only care about the Ashes ( read the series they win).. this is just practice.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

South Africa will always remain 2 or 3. It's what they feel comfortable with.

As for Pak in England. I will gain confidence with the win here but no chance. We might win a game though.

And I wouldn't underestimate England in the sub continent. We have seen that the pitches in the Middle East aren't exactly like the pitches in Lanka, India or Pakistan.

 

[Viscount Tom]

A few suggested changes for England, adopting their standard approach to selections in a crisis.

Out: Cook, Trott, Pietesen, Bell, Prior, Swann.

In: Gooch, Gower, Emburey, Cowdrey (RIP), Stewart, Hick.

Nahget Bumble and Boycott in, it should be fine then. And cheaper.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Clearly not everyone thinks he's abysmal and neither do I, I do think he needs to show more in his next opportunity, and he should be given a run if they go with him in the next Test. Don't get me wrong I don't think leaving him out was a bad decision in the first place, nor do I think his selection solves all our problems. but if you take a spare batsmen on tour and your batsmen are failing, surely the back-up man deserves a chance.

Regardless of what you say, in my opinion, it wasn't easy for any batsmen starting his innings on that pitch against that attack. Yes we didn't do ourselves justice and a few of the shots were deplorable, but it was against some excellent bowling and we don't have a given right to always score runs regardless of the quality of the opposition.

It was a performance way below the standard England are capable of, I'm not making excuses for them just trying to make sense of what happened. I'm presuming you didn't catch much of the action by suggesting the ball deviated a few degrees, not only did it go a bit more than that, it wasn't every ball which makes it worse. There were also other issues of not picking Ajmal, regardless of how many support staff you have, the acid test is in the middle and we failed it today and in the first Test.

You don't learn a thing by picking Bopara, everyone knows he's **** - he's just because the selectors don't want to pick the next few genuine Test class batsmen yet for one off games. If you pick Morgan you pick him for the series - particularly in England's situation.

People are going on as if the pitch was a minefield. 72 all out in 36.1 overs against spin bowling is unacceptable on any sort of pitch you'll find in Test cricket these days. It's one thing to get ripped apart by seam when the pitch is green and the ball moves all over the place - that happens, you get some good deliveries and you just happen to nick them to a fielder. Against spin the batsmen have much more control over their own fate, none of them got an unplayable delivery they just played like total muppets. Rehman is an ordinary bowler and we gave him 6 wickets in a little more than 10 overs. The pitch was perfectly reasonable to bat on, it wasn't a real 5th day pitch (where the par score would be more like 180-220) and it didn't play like one, or anything that close. The pitch had a good balance between bat and ball.

Folk need to get away from looking at the scorecard and then deciding how the pitch played based on it. Pakistan's batting is nothing more than competent and England's has been shockingly bad. The bowling throughout was of a reasonably high standard so it was pretty obvious that every innings score in the match gone was below par - the last one considerably so. England batting like that will make any pitch look near impossible.

 

[Jacknife]

Pakistan absolutely destroyed England in the first test and bowled them out for less than half the target in the second. Can't it just be that Pakistan is the considerably superior team for the conditions.

When England was rolling India, I've heard the argument advanced that if a team so comprehensively plays better cricket than the other at home, then they're definitely gonna win away as well though not by a ridiculous margin and should be considered better. Say, hypothetically speaking, Pakistan wins comfortably in the third, would this logic hold true?

Not trying to stir or even that I believe in either side but just a thought.

Discuss.

What that Pakistan would come over to England and win here, doubt it but they'd have a good go. They'd have the same problems as England have had, that they wouldn't play faster ,swinging more bouncy pitches so well. Even in these home conditions they haven't looked too flash with the bat either. The England batsmen would also play their bowlers a lot better at home as well simply because it's obviously what they're used to.

Pakistan have shown they are are very well organised team with a good Captain and 2 good spinners, who have looked well up for the challenge, with all players pulling i the same direction.
I would say though that England are a better team than they've shown and showed in 3/4 of this test but haven't played anything like as well as they should of, a lot of this was down the Pakistan bowlers but not all. As we've seen it's bowling that wins you matches an keeps you in them and that's what England have on their side, a good attack for all conditions.

 

[Woodster]

You don't learn a thing by picking Bopara, everyone knows he's **** - he's just because the selectors don't want to pick the next few genuine Test class batsmen yet for one off games. If you pick Morgan you pick him for the series - particularly in England's situation.

People are going on as if the pitch was a minefield. 72 all out in 36.1 overs against spin bowling is unacceptable on any sort of pitch you'll find in Test cricket these days. It's one thing to get ripped apart by seam when the pitch is green and the ball moves all over the place - that happens, you get some good deliveries and you just happen to nick them to a fielder. Against spin the batsmen have much more control over their own fate, none of them got an unplayable delivery they just played like total muppets. Rehman is an ordinary bowler and we gave him 6 wickets in a little more than 10 overs. The pitch was perfectly reasonable to bat on, it wasn't a real 5th day pitch (where the par score would be more like 180-220) and it didn't play like one, or anything that close. The pitch had a good balance between bat and ball.

Folk need to get away from looking at the scorecard and then deciding how the pitch played based on it. Pakistan's batting is nothing more than competent and England's has been shockingly bad. The bowling throughout was of a reasonably high standard so it was pretty obvious that every innings score in the match gone was below par - the last one considerably so. England batting like that will make any pitch look near impossible.

I'm sure it wasn't in the selectors mind to pick Bopara for any of the Tests otherwise they may havegiven him a chance in one of the tour games to give him some competitive cricket and an understanding of what's required in these conditions. It isn't just the fact that some of the batsmen haven't scored too many runs, it's the way they've played and been dismissed.

I still stand by the fact it wasn't easy batting at the start of your innings on that pitch, yes we didn't make a good enough fist of it, but Pakistan bowled very well indeed.

I'm not sure if anybody is deciding how the pitch has played based on a scorecard, I know my assessment was made during the game and watching what was unfolding. It may have been difficult at times, but it wasn't impossible by any means.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

In England we would play only Ajmal and add an extra pacer like Wahab. Maybe Umar Akmal would be more suited for English conditions than Shafiq. Wish Sadaf was in the squad though.

 

[Faisal1985]

Hope Wahab gets a chance next match...