So the ICC evidence is finally in - and apparently even Glen McGrath chucks...

[Son Of Coco]

Warne_Is_God,
your lack of knowledge of this world is shocking to say the least.
It has been a disadvantage to be a black for the last 400-500 years. Yea, before that the blacks/colored people were on even-keel or bossed around the fairer ones but TODAY, its not an advantage to be a black. Its not even even keel yet.
Why dont you look at your Aussie history and see the racism against Aboriginies that are existant to THIS DAY.
why dont you look at american or british history for that ?

As per discerning the degree of bend from old footages, its not hard at all.
I am an electronics engineer and i can tell you what is the angle of flexing of Lillee-Thommo-Marshall etc. with an error margin of few minutes (ya know-degrees-minutes-seconds?) if i had the proper equipment.
If video footage can be analysed to get an accuracy level of a few minutes, why was Murali tested with all those electrodes ? reason being its even more accurate.
The method used on murali probably has an error margin of a a few seconds or so....ie, more accurate.
And when more accurate measuring ways are available, thats whats used.
But thats does NOT mean video-analysis is invalid.
All you need is practically frame-splitters, resolution enhancers and a software datalink from -frame-by-frame photoprocessing to a software like Maple or MATlab.
If video evidence suggests that Lillee chucks by bending his arm 14 degrees, it means 14 degrees, 30 minutes with +/- 5 minutes error. Ie, his actual chuck angle is anywhere between 14 degrees 25 minutes and 14 degrees 35 minutes.
If murali chucks 14 degrees by the UWA testing, its something like 14 degrees, 33 minutes and 40 seconds with a +/- 10 seconds error rate.
Ie, his angle-bend is anywhere between 14 degrees, 33 minutes and 30 seconds to 14 degrees, 33 minutes and 50 seconds.

If you dont understand science(which you obviously dont), dont whine. Just ask and someone will explain!

Are you looking for someone to tell you that you sound very intelligent? I'm not questioning any knowledge you may have about the subject, as you seem to know quite a bit, but having a go at other's intelligence on here constantly in your posting is a bit tiring. If you know about it good one, there's lots of us that don't, but some of us will discuss it without exact scientific numbers and that's just the way it is.

As for the Aboriginal history reference, is the anything else you'd like to enlighten us on regarding the history of our country?

 

[honestbharani]

From Cricinfo: "Last week, an ICC panel announced that, after extensive studies of the actions of the leading bowlers in international cricket, up to 99% of fast bowlers occasionally exceed their permitted 10-degree leverage."

So that's "up to 99%", which means it could be any number from 0 to 99.

and "occasionally exceed their permitted 10-degree leverage", unlike Murali who I assume ALWAYS exceeds the 10-degrees for his doosra. There is a big difference between occasionally (especially in ICC-speak) and always.

What if Murali only bowls his 'doosra' occassionally? Plus, IDK what all this fuss is about? If the change in his action is so visible that everyone knows that he chucks, then the batters around the world should be happy, so that now they can easily pick which one goes which way.



And for all this degrees business, a lot of people believe that cricket is becoming a batsman's game, more than ever. And with the amount of cricket being played, if a bowler needs to flex his elbow to that little extent of upto 15 degrees to bowl better, then so be it. AT least now, the batters will have a real challenge. We all know that the era of great bowlers has passed.

 

[C_C]

Are you looking for someone to tell you that you sound very intelligent? I'm not questioning any knowledge you may have about the subject, as you seem to know quite a bit, but having a go at other's intelligence on here constantly in your posting is a bit tiring. If you know about it good one, there's lots of us that don't, but some of us will discuss it without exact scientific numbers and that's just the way it is.

As for the Aboriginal history reference, is the anything else you'd like to enlighten us on regarding the history of our country

if i were looking for people to call me intelligent, i would be starting metaphysical debates and talking about black holes in detail.
I perceive some here as quiete daft. And i have no problems of saying it.
You dont have to have exact scientific numbers for an argument to be valid. What you DO require to have is sound and consisnent reasoning. Thats whats lacking in some posters here.

As per your country's history- next time i see a gullible poster making references and comments that stand in stark contrast to your history, i'll point it out. You got a problem with that ?If so, stuff it, mate!


Jason- my comment was not intended to be a pot shot at Australia. if it came across so, i apologise. I made that comment to merely put the poster in touch with reality and facts.

 

[Richard]

I think if you implemented measures to ensure the arm didn't hyperextend etc then you'd probably find an increase in related injuries. The body is flexing for a reason, to take that away would surely create greater stress on joints and muscles.

Possibly it might.
Thing is, bowlers with double-jointed elbows are actually incredibly rare. James Kirtley and Shoaib Akhtar are the only ones with any prominence of late. And you think of the number of bowlers who play the game.
Anyhow, the elbow hyper-extends in bowling for one reason as far as I can tell - the force of movement - momentum. If you just roll your arm over very gently, it won't - believe me, I know one or two bowlers with double-joints. If injuries were caused, we'd have to look at some special instruments for the special cases. If not - no problems.

 

[anzac]

Warne_Is_God,
your lack of knowledge of this world is shocking to say the least.
It has been a disadvantage to be a black for the last 400-500 years. Yea, before that the blacks/colored people were on even-keel or bossed around the fairer ones but TODAY, its not an advantage to be a black. Its not even even keel yet.
Why dont you look at your Aussie history and see the racism against Aboriginies that are existant to THIS DAY.
why dont you look at american or british history for that ?

As per discerning the degree of bend from old footages, its not hard at all.
I am an electronics engineer and i can tell you what is the angle of flexing of Lillee-Thommo-Marshall etc. with an error margin of few minutes (ya know-degrees-minutes-seconds?) if i had the proper equipment.
If video footage can be analysed to get an accuracy level of a few minutes, why was Murali tested with all those electrodes ? reason being its even more accurate.
The method used on murali probably has an error margin of a a few seconds or so....ie, more accurate.
And when more accurate measuring ways are available, thats whats used.
But thats does NOT mean video-analysis is invalid.
All you need is practically frame-splitters, resolution enhancers and a software datalink from -frame-by-frame photoprocessing to a software like Maple or MATlab.
If video evidence suggests that Lillee chucks by bending his arm 14 degrees, it means 14 degrees, 30 minutes with +/- 5 minutes error. Ie, his actual chuck angle is anywhere between 14 degrees 25 minutes and 14 degrees 35 minutes.
If murali chucks 14 degrees by the UWA testing, its something like 14 degrees, 33 minutes and 40 seconds with a +/- 10 seconds error rate.
Ie, his angle-bend is anywhere between 14 degrees, 33 minutes and 30 seconds to 14 degrees, 33 minutes and 50 seconds.

If you dont understand science(which you obviously dont), dont whine. Just ask and someone will explain!

and you sir are in serious danger of coming across as a monumental tosser...........

 

[anzac]

if i were looking for people to call me intelligent, i would be starting metaphysical debates and talking about black holes in detail.
I perceive some here as quiete daft. And i have no problems of saying it.
You dont have to have exact scientific numbers for an argument to be valid. What you DO require to have is sound and consisnent reasoning. Thats whats lacking in some posters here.

As per your country's history- next time i see a gullible poster making references and comments that stand in stark contrast to your history, i'll point it out. You got a problem with that ?If so, stuff it, mate!

no - let me correct my earlier statement - you ARE coming across as a monumental tosser.............

 

[Scaly piscine]

If the change in his action is so visible that everyone knows that he chucks, then the batters around the world should be happy, so that now they can easily pick which one goes which way.

But even when he's not chucking he *looks* like he's chucking, so there's not gonna be an obvious difference as you suggest.

 

[JASON]

and you sir are in serious danger of coming across as a monumental tosser...........

no - let me correct my earlier statement - you ARE coming across as a monumental tosser.............

And how do you think you sound with your repetitive posts ?

Or is it just cheap way of increasing your post count ?

 

[marc71178]

Actually, I read Anzac's posts and thought they were both worthy additions.

 

[anzac]

And how do you think you sound with your repetitive posts ?

Or is it just cheap way of increasing your post count ?

you've found me out..........

 

[anzac]

Actually, I read Anzac's posts and thought they were both worthy additions.

 

[JASON]

you've found me out..........

Join our cricket trivia thread (SJS format one) and you can increase your post count very very quickly (particularly when the rapid fire questions are on around night time) !!

 

[Son Of Coco]

if i were looking for people to call me intelligent, i would be starting metaphysical debates and talking about black holes in detail.
I perceive some here as quiete daft. And i have no problems of saying it.
You dont have to have exact scientific numbers for an argument to be valid. What you DO require to have is sound and consisnent reasoning. Thats whats lacking in some posters here.

As per your country's history- next time i see a gullible poster making references and comments that stand in stark contrast to your history, i'll point it out. You got a problem with that ?If so, stuff it, mate!


Jason- my comment was not intended to be a pot shot at Australia. if it came across so, i apologise. I made that comment to merely put the poster in touch with reality and facts.

mmmmhm, I won't start an argument about this because that will sound even sillier. There may have been a more articulate way to pull said poster into line without bringing up your idea of what our history is all about, as I have my own doubts regarding whether you're knowledge on that subject is complete. It was an easy shot to take though and it was duly dispatched......

 

[Son Of Coco]

Possibly it might.
Thing is, bowlers with double-jointed elbows are actually incredibly rare. James Kirtley and Shoaib Akhtar are the only ones with any prominence of late. And you think of the number of bowlers who play the game.
Anyhow, the elbow hyper-extends in bowling for one reason as far as I can tell - the force of movement - momentum. If you just roll your arm over very gently, it won't - believe me, I know one or two bowlers with double-joints. If injuries were caused, we'd have to look at some special instruments for the special cases. If not - no problems.

Doesn't it also hyperextend due to stress placed on it by forces needed to propel the ball forward? I don't think hyperextension occurs purely in those with double-jointed elbows.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Needs a digging to discuss Ajmal and

It's natural that spinners (especially the orthodox variety) are going to test the limits more, because they have to rotate their arm rather than just fling it down.

Which I'm fairly sure is horribly wrong. Does anyone know if there are some stats of the study the ICC did? Like typical arm-bends of different bowlers? There's stuff about virtually all fast bowlers going beyond 10 degrees 'occasionally' and how all the old quicks technically chucked but not much else. I'd like to have some numbers to see how much extra bend the likes of Saeed Ajmal get to play with before they go over the limit.

 

[vic_orthdox]

What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if even the most natural looking of orthodox spinners have reasonably high degrees of flexion, simply because of the nature of the beast. You're moving your arm fast enough to bowl 110km/h whilst rotating the arm, the elbow has to rotate at the same time. There's going to be flexion there, IMO, and you can see that in a number of actions.

 

[Z-Man]

Whats the fuss about?
Teesra is completely fine if you are talking about this delivery 43344330006 - YouTube

It is actually better than his orthodox deliveries since his arms straightens - a bit like Malinga or Tait.
I do not really know the rules except the 15 degree but that really looks fine. If anyone has a problem, they should complain to the ICC but lemme remind you, ICC already cleared him

I fear, a few of the camps won't recognize him as a spinner just like they do not consider Murali a spinner.

 

[Pothas]

Murali has **** all to do with it.

Always thought Ajmal was highly suspect but he was cleared so thats been happy to live with that but this new delivery is just a throw and it needs to be looked at. If he is cleared again then I shall stop complaining.

 

[Jono]

Oh man reading Slow Love"s posts from 2004 made me quite nostalgic.

Wag he was. Amazing poster.

 

[Shri]

We now have to put up with the like of you instead. Yeah its bad.