***Official*** India in Australia 2011/12

[Son Of Coco]

The bowlers won the game. Australia's best batsman was arguably the debutant. Save this bollocks for an occasion when good players who happen to be experienced aren't collectively somewhat ****e.

Really? Cowan did well in the first innings...but Ponting scored in the 60's twice and Hussey scored 89 (both more than the debutant). When we were falling apart in the second innings it was Ponting and Hussey that steadied the ship.

Got to say one thing for you Scaly, you don't let your hatred for certain players be tempered by what actually happened.

 

[Spark]

My 2c on the Ponting issue...

Yeah he's scored 4 50s in the last 4 tests and was a big contributor to the win here.

BUT, even with those 4 50s he's still just barely averaging 40 in those same 4 tests. So his best form in the last 12 months is only just barely test standard. The point is he has to maintain this 50 per test strike rate to just hold his place. If this is a precursor to a renaissance where he starts peeling off the scores and is averaging 50+ then great, beautiful, you showed me Punter, all hail Ricky. But as was pointed out he had a similar run of 50s in India/Brisbane a year ago and then backed it up with a year averaging less than 30.

At least someone like Mark Waugh used to peel off a glorious ton when his spot came under the microscope. I really does look to me that Ponting just can't stay in long enough to score a ton now. That means the 50s have to come much more often. I don't think he has that in him either. Lets face it, he looked comical starting in the first dig, and India were bowling absolute rubbish. If they had bowled as well as they did for most of the rest of the game he would have been on his bike. Ponting's experience hasn't helped a damn recently in Hobart, Cape Town, Melbourne, Adelaide, etc etc.

So yeah great Rick, well done, but for me I only see that buying him Sydney. All the talk of George Bailey is so much ****. George Bailey isn't the guy to take his spot. There's a guy named Watson that seems to have slipped people's memories. He could be back for Perth, and if Ponting doesn't back up with more runs in Sydney then he'd be the guy who'd be making way if I were picking the team. If we're going to have a guy making sub 40 in the top 6 then I'll take the one with the sub 30 bowling average who isn't 37. Only Watson's continued absence should save him. Without a lot more runs I wouldn't be giving him a flight to the Caribbean.

Hmmm... I don't think it's precisely fair to just say "oh, he's only averaging 40 in those four matches" without actually looking at the four matches in question. Most batsmen would be lucky to be averaging 25!

 

[Son Of Coco]

I wasn't questioning their place in the side however if Watson was fit for this match then I would have had no problem putting him at 4 or 6 depending on who was dropped. My point was you can't go throwing around the experience card for keeping players when we have had not one, not two but three collapses under 100 including 9/21 in the past 18 months. If this so called experience was so valuable then where were they in those collapses?

Experience doesn't guarantee you runs every time you bat...but I think the point is - do you think we could've selected someone else who would've done any better in those situations?

 

[adub]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make you angry, it's just that I have great respect for Ponting and can't advocate dropping him like that. And that's interesting I didn't know his average was that low. To be fair though those were all very low scoring matches so runs in these last few matches count for a lot. But I see your point.

Ha that's sweet. I don't get angry over the internet.

The low scoring matches angle is about the only one that carries much weight with me, but then why was Khawaja dropped? He had done as much as Ponting in those same three low scoring matches (Jo'burg, Brisbane, Hobart). He contributed more to the win in Jo'burg, was going along nicely before Ponting ran him out in Brisbane and outscored Ponting in both innings in Hobart. Them being low scoring matches didn't save his arse.

Simple fact is Ponting has been dire for a long time. If a miracle happens and he regains some pre-2007 form then brilliant, I'll be as happy as anyone. It's a bit like trying to win the lottery though. How many times are you prepared to bet your pay packet before you realise the odds are so stacked against you that you move on and get with reality?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Suffice to say I don't agree.

By all means if there's a budding tyro batting great knocking on the door give him a go, but when the alternatives are batsmen like George Bailey, whose FC career to date suggests he's not fit to carry Hussey's or Ponting's jock straps, then I'd feel much happier with the blokes who've done it before in my team.

Class/form, etc.

How they did it was also a big factor. A bit like the Ashes last year, there was a momentum swing when Hussey got in and they couldn't hold him down on strike at all. The thing with Hussey is that he's been pretty good when he gets past his first 10 balls, at the moment though he's struggling to do that. His knock was really important, and it made it a lot easier for Punter too.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Warner's leg spin wasn't so bad; if he flights it a bit more and doesn't drop it short so much it might be a decent option.

Professional "buy a wicket" man. No more.

 

[SteveNZ]

Warner's leg spin wasn't so bad; if he flights it a bit more and doesn't drop it short so much it might be a decent option.

Haha, so what you're really saying is if he didn't bowl pies he'd be a good bowler. Yeah he turns it but I doubt he'll ever be a Test class leggie. And if he did become one, it would be at the detriment of his batting.

Are the Ponting and Hussey bashers still going? I see the usual suspect is doing his level best to defoul their efforts, despite the fact that if they'd fallen over in the 2nd innings we'd be talking about a loss, Ponting also scored runs in the first dig and Hussey recovered from a bad decision and a duck in a match winning innings. Yes, that reads match winning.

I can understand why Clarke gets utterly sick of discussing it.

 

[adub]

Hmmm... I don't think it's precisely fair to just say "oh, he's only averaging 40 in those four matches" without actually looking at the four matches in question. Most batsmen would be lucky to be averaging 25!

True enough, Only Warner (and Watson) has a better average over those matches. Before this game though Clarke and Haddin (Haddin FFS!) were also in front for the last SA and two NZ tests. Small samples and all that. The point is that run of 4 tests is cherry picking the best bit of Ponting for the last 12 months.

So Ponting's best 4 match streak this year has yielded 283 @ 40.42 against 415 @ 31.92 for the year. His third straight year averaging in the 30s.

Hussey who (for reasons I can't fathom) seems to be under more pressure but has averaged 42.50 for the year (ie 2 rpi more than Ponting's best 4 match streak). His best 4 match streak in that time yielded 508 @ 72.57. Before that he was our best bat in the Ashes.

Clarke's best 4 match streak was 423 @ 60.42. He's been a bit rocks and diamonds, but that streak wasn't in high scoring matches.

Marsh in his 4 matches has almost identical numbers to Ponting's 'hot streak' (287 @ 41) and one of those matches he was hampered by his back injury.

Even ****ing Hughes managed 279 @ 39.85 in his best run of 4 tests this year and Uzi averaged 35 over his best 4 consecutive tests.

No Australian can be said to have made these runs in high scoring games. You make the point that Ponting's 4 match streak comes in low scoring matches, but Jo'burg and Melbourne are the 2nd and 3rd highest match totals we've made this year, and Brisbane was the 2nd highest innings total. Only Hobart can be genuinely called a low scoring match by this year's standards (dire as they are) and of course he contributed the square root of **** all there.

The point is at 37 and with three years of **** behind him Ponting deserves no more lifelines. He makes runs and regularly or he ****s off. We've been a **** batting unit for some time and Ponting for all his class, and skill, and experience and all the other adjectives used to describe him has made almost no difference to that. I won't be spunking my load over a couple of 60s. If he backs it up then great. I won't be holding my breath though.

 

[Spikey]

Fred Spofforth had no heart and only ran in hard for half the day.

this is true

 

[Crazy Sam]

Haha, so what you're really saying is if he didn't bowl pies he'd be a good bowler. Yeah he turns it but I doubt he'll ever be a Test class leggie. And if he did become one, it would be at the detriment of his batting.

Are the Ponting and Hussey bashers still going? I see the usual suspect is doing his level best to defoul their efforts, despite the fact that if they'd fallen over in the 2nd innings we'd be talking about a loss, Ponting also scored runs in the first dig and Hussey recovered from a bad decision and a duck in a match winning innings. Yes, that reads match winning.

I can understand why Clarke gets utterly sick of discussing it.

No I am saying that if we feel we need to play four pace bowlers (which I don't agree with) then he could become a reasonable option. Clarke obviously dislikes bowling himself.

One thing I like about Inverarity is that he said he wants to see more of the batsmen around the country doing a bit more bowling. The value of a good batsman who can roll the arm over for a bit (not necessarily an out-and-out allrounder) is underrated.

 

[GotSpin]

Prefer my batsmen to score more runs tbh

 

[Sylvester]

Experience doesn't guarantee you runs every time you bat...but I think the point is - do you think we could've selected someone else who would've done any better in those situations?

The 'if' world is filled with endless possibilities. However since you want an answer could someone have done better than 0, 0, 10, 8, 5, 6 - I'd say there is a good chance the replacement would have scored more runs in each of those collapses.

 

[adub]

No I am saying that if we feel we need to play four pace bowlers (which I don't agree with) then he could become a reasonable option. Clarke obviously dislikes bowling himself.

One thing I like about Inverarity is that he said he wants to see more of the batsmen around the country doing a bit more bowling. The value of a good batsman who can roll the arm over for a bit (not necessarily an out-and-out allrounder) is underrated.

Yes it's something we have lost a bit. Used to love watching Doug Walters, or Chappell, or Border rolling the arm over. Giving Huss more overs is something I've liked from Clarke. He should bowl himself more. Warner might also buy us a few wickets here and there.

 

[adub]

The 'if' world is filled with endless possibilities. However since you want an answer could someone have done better than 0, 0, 10, 8, 5, 6 - I'd say there is a good chance the replacement would have scored more runs in each of those collapses.

Fairly long odds on doing worse.

 

[SteveNZ]

No I am saying that if we feel we need to play four pace bowlers (which I don't agree with) then he could become a reasonable option. Clarke obviously dislikes bowling himself.

One thing I like about Inverarity is that he said he wants to see more of the batsmen around the country doing a bit more bowling. The value of a good batsman who can roll the arm over for a bit (not necessarily an out-and-out allrounder) is underrated.

It's definitely rated by me. The balance of our side is all out of kilter with Ryder not bowling. Couple that with McCullum not keeping and we're almost playing 2 more players we don't need. I always felt Katich was underbowled so yeah, I take your point on Warner.

 

[Neil Pickup]

It's definitely rated by me. The balance of our side is all out of kilter with Ryder not bowling. Couple that with McCullum not keeping and we're almost playing 2 more players we don't need. I always felt Katich was underbowled so yeah, I take your point on Warner.

Yeah - when Collingwood retired I called the biggest thing we would miss about his presence as being his bowling (this was on the day he knocked over Mike Hussey at the SCG, I think), and whilst we haven't really had the reason to worry about fill-in overs of late, tossing the ball to Trott or Pietersen really doesn't have the same degree of control. It's the only thing keeping Bopara near the Test setup, rightly or wrongly...

 

[Sylvester]

It's definitely rated by me. The balance of our side is all out of kilter with Ryder not bowling. Couple that with McCullum not keeping and we're almost playing 2 more players we don't need. I always felt Katich was underbowled so yeah, I take your point on Warner.

That's what happens when you get spoiled with the all rounder. We experienced the same thing with Watson. Had he been in the side we could well have rolled India alot more cheaply than we did. Nothing against Lyon but that track just wasn't for him, you could feel the pressure was released when Lyon came on again not through any fault of his own just India being brilliant against spin. Put Watson in there who is the king of reverse swing for us and there would have been no let up.

 

[Spikey]

Prefer my batsmen to score more runs tbh

itstl

 

[Burgey]

Australia: Michael Clarke (capt), Brad Haddin, Ed Cowan, Ryan Harris, Ben Hilfenhaus, Mike Hussey, Nathan Lyon, Shaun Marsh, James Pattinson, Ricky Ponting, Peter Siddle, David Warner (12th man to be named).

Nice to see our squad being named so early.

So The Jaguar comes back into the 12. Reckon they'll risk him? I'm not so sure tbh.

 

[benchmark00]

So The Jaguar comes back into the 12. Reckon they'll risk him? I'm not so sure tbh.

I'm hoping to get a late call up like Luke Pomersbach did that time he got picked for a T20I.