Sir Don Bradman - Is it fair to rate him above batsmen of other eras?

[Top_Cat]

Really? How come?

 

[Spark]

The data is pretty noisy, I believe - the number of measurements you have to take before you actually see something is so large that you'll get +2s a fair bit which aren't particularly meaningful. +3s are rare but not sufficiently rare to make the sort of big pronouncements you see in particle physics.

I think the standard is that +3 is "evidence", and a "discovery" is a confirmed +5. So yeah they have high standards.

 

[Ruckus]

What are you nuts? Hasn't everyone read the paper on the stochastic phase switching of a parametrically driven electron in a penning trap? Apparently, a bistability arises dynamically in the specific parametrically-driven systems, because the phase phi of the electron’s steady-state oscillation can either have the two values separated by phi. Also what shocks me about an electron in a Penning trap is that most amplitude collapses are accompanied by a phase flip. Given that the rate of escape from the trap depends exponentially on an activation energy E as the diffusion constant D approaches Tn and phi approaches phi^E/D. Have you considered that the parametric driving force excites a nearly-resonant electron oscillation at the drive frequency, phi^d/3 = phi^z + ?? It’s a classic example of the period-doubling that occurs when a linear oscillator is strongly driven. Ergo, Bradman>Tendulkar.

 

[Spark]

I don't know whether to lol or get angry because it reminds me of a trainwreck of a course I did last year.

 

[Mike5181]

Arthur Mold Bowling to A.N. Hornby (1901) - YouTube

It's not entirely related but this is footage of what was considered to be a world class bowler in 1901.

 

[Top_Cat]

haha, Mold was already 38 there and Hornby 54 at a time when life expectancy in England was 45! Don't think it's controversial to say the physical condition of a bloke aged 38 in 1901 and someone 38 now in the age of stuff like Penicillin barely resembles each other.

Plus it just looks like Mold was rolling his arm over. If you're ballsy enough to send down your quickest to a bloke in his mid-50's in the nets with a crowd watching soon after you'd been hounded out of the game for chucking, more power to you but I wouldn't.

 

[Burgey]

Arthur Mold Bowling to A.N. Hornby (1901) - YouTube

It's not entirely related but this is footage of what was considered to be a world class bowler in 1901.

For what it's worth, here's what a leading bowler looked like in 1932.....


Larwood.m4v - YouTube

 

[Cevno]

Disagree slightly. A multi-stage stratified random sample of respective players' careers + some controlling for rule changes, etc. and you could get comparable datasets. The problem of runs scored being poor measures is a massive issue, though.

That said, poor measures, errors and whatever else aside, Bradman's average being so far above the arithmetic mean does make it awfully difficult to argue he wasn't the best bat ever. In any field you care to name with much more complicated/larger datasets/analysis, 3+ std above the mean = conclusive evidence by itself.

Would the same then apply to George Lohmann?

 

[Prince EWS]

Would the same then apply to George Lohmann?

Lohmann played some really bad opposition on some really bowler-friendly wickets though, in a bowler-friendly era too. He was an all-time great bowler but if look at his career properly, you can definitely find strong evidence to suggest his record was vastly flattering. I don't think he was even in the top 5 when I last calculated his standardised average.

 

[Burgey]

How many tests did Lohman play, and over what period though?

 

[Mike5181]

For what it's worth, here's what a leading bowler looked like in 1932.....


Larwood.m4v - YouTube

Compared to the leading bowlers from 1980 onwards he's several steps down in quality.

 

[Top_Cat]

Would the same then apply to George Lohmann?

Within 3 std's, though, whereas Bradman's almost 5 from memory.

 

[Burgey]

Compared to the leading bowlers from 1980 onwards he's several steps down in quality.

Haha, because you can tell that how? The bloke was plainly quick. You can see as much.

Compared to caps and fence palings, helmets, chest guards and bats are by many factors better than anything in the 70s and 80s, let alone the 30s.

So you'd reckon Lillee, Hall, Snow and those blokes from the 60s and 70s weren't much chop too?

 

[Flametree]

How many tests did Lohman play, and over what period though?

per cricinfo. 18 tests in all, 15 vs Australia, 3 vs South Africa

v Australia 1886-1896 77 wickets @ 13.01
v South Africa 1896-1896 35 wickets @ 5.80
Total 112 wickets @ 10.75


in Australia 1887-1892 41 wickets @ 11.65
in England 1886-1896 36 wickets @ 14.55
in South Africa 1896-1896 35 wickets @ 5.80

It's not a bad effort considering he had tuberculosis in 1892, was never fully healthy thereafter, and died in 1901 aged just 36.

 

[benchmark00]

Within 3 std's, though, whereas Bradman's almost 5 from memory.

Contraception difficult to come by back in the day?

 

[Mike5181]

Haha, because you can tell that how? The bloke was plainly quick. You can see as much.

Compared to caps and fence palings, helmets, chest guards and bats are by many factors better than anything in the 70s and 80s, let alone the 30s.

So you'd reckon Lillee, Hall, Snow and those blokes from the 60s and 70s weren't much chop too?

No, the first helmet was worn in 78 so that's why i placed emphasis on the 80s onwards. The batsmen having extra protection doesn't diminish the quality of the bowlers. In fact it increases the skill needed to cope with the enhanced confidence of the batsman?

Quite often we see batsman wearing caps etc. Most of the great batsman of today grew up wearing them. Remember Ponting batting against Ambrose, Bishop and co in 96 etc.

 

[andyc]

Came here to post this. Says it all.

 

[ankitj]

The Physics posts on this thread make me feel like an illiterate.

 

[Burgey]

No, the first helmet was worn in 78 so that's why i placed emphasis on the 80s onwards. The batsmen having extra protection doesn't diminish the quality of the bowlers. In fact it increases the skill needed to cope with the enhanced confidence of the batsman?

Quite often we see batsman wearing caps etc. Most of the great batsman of today grew up wearing them. Remember Ponting batting against Ambrose, Bishop and co in 96 etc.

Really? How many modern batsmen wear caps now unless two spinners are bowling?

 

[stephen]

Amazingly close to a normal distribution as well.