Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[GIMH]

Couldn't give a ****, sick of his bull****

 

[Cruxdude]

I was initially livid that he had escaped a life ban, but having had time to think over it feel that 5 years is kind of right for him. He was just 18 and had his captain egging him on to do these stuff. Butt and Asif got off light though.

 

[Cevno]

You grew up in a remote orthodox monastery with no domestic animals?

I wonder if there would so much pro-Amir sentiment if he wasnt from Pakistan...

What's that got to do with anything?

He was a 18 year old coming from a poor background,who was exposed to International cricket without any counselling or mental preparation.
It is really tough for such a young boy to reject it when the senior teammates and his ****ing captain come up to him,to tell him that he can make a large amount of money by just bowling a no ball and that they have been doing it all along. Who knows the captain and the senior players had threatened to alienate him and get him dropped?
Wouldn't surprise me if some adminstrators were involved too or he was threatened with other things.

Yes the last part is speculation, but lets all get off our ****ing high horse and try to understand the possible contexts of it too.

How many people would resist or go and whistleblow if their senior is getting some form of commision where they work and offers them to be part of some form of information leaking (which is not too much loss causing too)? Specially, when they have just joined the company at a age of 18,without any real high preparation or education and he threatens to put them under pressure or fire them if they do not comply?

And then if they get caught and there lawyer tells them to lie in court to get away with minimum punishment,how many will go and admit they were wrong and were part of the malpractice?
And if there lawyer tells them to admit their crime later even if they were not wrong,will they not?

He engaged in Spot fixing,not match fixing under these possible circumstances and it didn't really cause anyone any harm. Not worth wasting a entire career of a 18 year old on it. He commited a crime and has paid for it. The duration of the sentence is at question here not whether he should or not. And advocating the maximum possible penalty for such a crime is frankly bizarre tbh.

Btw, does ICC provide ****ing counselling to young players about all rules and procedures when they come into the team?Even after this incident.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

It's not like these kids had their bowling arms calibrated in a vacuum. They saw for themselves what happened to Salim Malik, Azaharuddin and Cronje if you whore yourself out while forgetting who actually brung you to the dance. That, for any cricketer of sound mind, should give any fixer pause.

Also a matter of talent trumping culpability. Can't see the clemency given as justified if they accepted money for potentially changing the outcome of a cricket game. The infuriating thing to imagine is that if Michael Beer got paid by the arm-ball, we'd be dancing in the ****ing streets instead of demanding special treatment because we shouldn't squander such talented young men. Asif kept popping and shooting and smuggling because he knew he was indispensable to his side's attack and that his government would say anything to mitigate what he did.

It's a steaming, rancid **** of a double standard. Throw the book at them.

 

[Xuhaib]

I had sympathies for Aamer when the story came out I have an idea of the inner workings of the Pakistani dressing room how the senior cricketers especially the skipper is next thing to god and you do what ever he orders, however it was constant lying and no show of remorse after the incident which peeved me no doubt his loss is huge but I am sure this is better for Pakistan cricket in the long run part of the reason he never acknowledged his crime was because seniors before him were never punished for their crimes.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Btw, does ICC provide ****ing counselling to young players about all rules and procedures when they come into the team?Even after this incident.

You need a highly-paid therapist to tell you that bowling to a bookies' pitch map just might be a risky career move? Even if it was there, I doubt they'd have the requisite influence to make a proper systemic change.

 

[Cevno]

I had sympathies for Aamer when the story came out I have an idea of the inner workings of the Pakistani dressing room how the senior cricketers especially the skipper is next thing to god and you do what ever he orders, however it was constant lying and no show of remorse after the incident which peeved me no doubt his loss is huge but I am sure this is better for Pakistan cricket in the long run part of the reason he never acknowledged his crime was because seniors before him were never punished for their crimes.

His and other players/PCB's Lawyers's and PCB officials would have been advising him to do what he did.

As for the Skippers point,obviously it is a completely different context but reminds me of A few good men and Code Red.
It is really tough to stand alone as a young 18 year old coming from such a poor background and without counselling in the international area, when the whole dressing room atmosphere and the Captain is corrupted.And don't think he has too much education either.

 

[Fusion]

Bun's family values trolling that he has adopted this week is a ****ing joke, seriously Bun, just get ****ed you horrible little ****

And comparing WWE to matchfixing is hilariously ********.

Couldn't give a ****, sick of his bull****

This is clearly not acceptable posting. Whether you agree with a member or not, attacking him in this way is not allowed.

We all know this subject matter can bring out the emotions in us, but let me warn everyone to debate without resorting to insults or else infractions will be handed out.

 

[Cevno]

You need a highly-paid therapist to tell you that bowling to a bookies' pitch map just might be a risky career move? Even if it was there, I doubt they'd have the requisite influence to make a proper systemic change.

He just bowled a no ball tbf, and that too as instructed to do by his ****ing captain and his teammate who i would imagine was supposed to be his bowling attack leader and mentor.

I meant counselling as in to know how much the punishment can be for the crime, how to deal with pressure from the peer group and the leader to do it? and to where ****ing report it when under pressure as a 18 year old under the circumstances i outlined above?
What to do when your captain and teammates along with officials present a scenario to you that if you just ball a single no ball, it affects nothing(nor the result) and you get paid a huge amoung but if you don't then you get alienated as a kid in the dressing room and the Captain sends out bad reports about you and the bookies intimdate other threats?

 

[G.I.Joe]

Bloody hell. This thread is un****ingbelievable. If I were Pakistani, I'd be up in arms at the implication that 18 year olds in my society need to be counselled on something that isn't just a matter of universal morality, but also something any child in a cricket obsessed country would be aware of as a matter of routine.

 

[Furball]

He just bowled a no ball tbf, and that too as instructed to do by his ****ing captain and his teammate who i would imagine was supposed to be his bowling attack leader and mentor.

Worst. Defence. Ever.

The issue here isn't that he "just" bowled a no ball. It is that he was in the pay of an external agent who could manipulate the outcome of a game to suit himself and his shady buddies. Let's not forget that there was an ODI and T20 series coming up, which instinct tells me should be easier to fix particularly if you've got Pakistan's 2 best bowlers bowling no-balls when you want them to.

But hey, apparently cheating and corruption like this is ok because he was just an 18 year old kid. Absolutely ****ing ludicrous.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

He just bowled a no ball tbf, and that too as instructed to do by his ****ing captain and his teammate who i would imagine was supposed to be his bowling attack leader and mentor.

I meant counselling as in to know how much the punishment can be for the crime, how to deal with pressure from the peer group and the leader to do it? and to where ****ing report it when under pressure as a 18 year old under the circumstances i outlined above?
What to do when your captain and teammates along with officials present a scenario to you that if you just ball a single no ball, it affects nothing(nor the result) and you get paid a huge amoung but if you don't then you get alienated as a kid in the dressing room and the Captain sends out bad reports about you and the bookies intimidate other threats?

Fair point. I endorse the idea that the culture of corruption trickles down from the skipper of the time - but IS there a way for an 18 year old to defy said captain and not be shunned?

FTR, I'd like to see an ICC 'Pledge of Honesty' that every current international should sign, and have them folded up in new baggy greens.

 

[Cevno]

Worst. Defence. Ever.

The issue here isn't that he "just" bowled a no ball. It is that he was in the pay of an external agent who could manipulate the outcome of a game to suit himself and his shady buddies. Let's not forget that there was an ODI and T20 series coming up, which instinct tells me should be easier to fix particularly if you've got Pakistan's 2 best bowlers bowling no-balls when you want them to.

But hey, apparently cheating and corruption like this is ok because he was just an 18 year old kid. Absolutely ****ing ludicrous.

Nobody has said it was OK.

He has got punished for it already, and the matter here at hand is now what the level of punishment should given the possible context of the situation and given he admitted to his crimes now.

 

[centurymaker]

cevno and bun have made a few good points but i believe the punishment should remain at 5 years.

 

[Cevno]

Bloody hell. This thread is un****ingbelievable. If I were Pakistani, I'd be up in arms at the implication that 18 year olds in my society need to be counselled on something that isn't just a matter of universal morality, but also something any child in a cricket obsessed country would be aware of as a matter of routine.

If you are referring to me, then you missed the point somewhat.

Never said that.

Edit - Just read and back and saw that it was not directed at me, so never mind.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Bloody hell. This thread is un****ingbelievable. If I were Pakistani, I'd be up in arms at the implication that 18 year olds in my society need to be counselled on something that isn't just a matter of universal morality, but also something any child in a cricket obsessed country would be aware of as a matter of routine.

The mot juste, I think.

There's been an awful lot of patronising claptrap so far.

 

[smash84]

Nobody has said it was OK.

He has got punished for it already, and the matter here at hand is now what the level of punishment should given the possible context of the situation and given he admitted to his crimes now.

awta

cevno and bun have made a few good points

not that I would necessarily agree with them but some excellent points made as far as the debate is concerned.

.....the comparison with WWE was hilarious though

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I have always believed in second chances and therefore think that he should be given one as well.

Gingerfurball please let me know an alternative career an 18/19 year old can have (without education) in one of the most deprived nations on the planet. Maybe he can join the Karachi Mafia and start shooting people, because I hear that they are recruiting young unemployed guys.

 

[GIMH]

Yeha maybe he should have thought of that beforehand.

How many 18 year olds in Pakistan would kill for his talent? **** him.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Tell me an 18 year old who thinks beforehand.