*Official* Fourth Test at The Oval

[MW1304]

Swanneh hasn't been needed, and hasn't had particularly helpful tracks to work on (Edgbaston turned, but very slowly). If he significantly helps us to win this game, then he'll have pretty much done his job for the series - bowl them out on a turning pitch - like in Australia, really. Must be remembered he bowled pretty much as well as he could at Lord's on a pitch with no assistance, so if he has a very good game here then its fair to say he rescued his series. Two good games and two poor games is okay, but one good game and three poor games is terrible, really. Even if you've had little help and have barely been needed.

 

[Howe_zat]

Doing badly in three and well does not mean your series is rescued.

It's a bit of a tangent since he hasn't been bowled as much as he hasn't been needed, but clearly one of the correct predictions about the series has been that India will generally end up playing him well, which they have.

Yeah, fair. But I only think the game that could really be considered bad is at TB.

I wasn't saying it'd count as a good series if he bowls us to the win here. It'd bring his series back to just about respectable.

So far it's one poor match and two ordinary. So if he makes it one poor, two ordinary and one excellent, that's not a bad go.

Of course, if he doesn't get a bag here - and there's no particular reason why he should rather than anyone else - then he's simply left with a poor performance.

 

[silentstriker]

The fact he is the spinner with the lowest average and most wickets though says that Indians despite their prowess against the spinners haven't played him as well as the English players have the Indian spinners despite them always being labelled as poor players of spin.

I don't think this line of argument applies when you're talking about an average of 80 going into this Test.....it's like saying a batsman had a better series than another when one averaged 5 while the other 10. Technically true but really both were quite poor and the difference was almost meaningless.

Maybe you could make that argument if he averaged 32.

I was responding to your statement that 'I thought Indians could play spin.' I think having the #1 spinner in the world average 80 (or 50) is a pretty good demonstration of that, regardless of the other circumstances. Obviously the Indian batting overall has been beyond terrible - one of the worst overseas performances of this decade....but not against Swann.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Anyway, not sure why so many of us are assuming England victory from here. They've still got to take 15 wickets in 6, or more likely 5, sessions. I'd say that's about a one in three chance of a draw.

Out of those 15 wickets, there are two Gambhirs (concussed), two Mishras, two Sreesanths, two RP Singhs, one Ishant and one Raina.

If we get 196 overs in, India have less than 10% chance of saving this.

 

[Howe_zat]

Out of those 15 wickets, there are two Gambhirs (concussed), two Mishras, two Sreesanths, two RP Singhs, one Ishant and one Raina.

If we get 196 overs in, India have less than 10% chance of saving this.

I don't think that's likely, though.

 

[Neil Pickup]

I don't think that's likely, though.

Definite full day tomorrow, and looking pretty good for a lot of play Monday too.

 

[Jacknife]

Doing badly in three and well does not mean your series is rescued.

It's a bit of a tangent since he hasn't been bowled as much as he hasn't been needed, but clearly one of the correct predictions about the series has been that India will generally end up playing him well, which they have.

How the hell did he bowl badly at lords?

 

[centurymaker]

Are Sachin's eyes going? Twice he's ducked into balls that weren't that short.

he got hit a few times in this 3rd test last year by southee.
3rd Test: India v New Zealand at Nagpur, Nov 20-23, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

before that I think he got hit once in bangladesh.

btw it was probably to do with broad's height (him ducking into that ball), he might have thought it was going to go over. broad's troubled him right through this series. his height's messed up sachin's foot work. doesn't know whether to go forward or back at times.

so far he's only looked good twice in 7 innings- 2nd innings at TB, 2nd innings edgbaston. He's been too erratic.

 

[centurymaker]

How the hell did he bowl badly at lords?

he was gun in the 2nd innings. can't recall how many wickets he took but was bowling so soo well

 

[Jacknife]

he was gun in the 2nd innings. can't recall how many wickets he took but was bowling so soo well

To say the pitch didn't turn at all he did a very good job, he bowled 41 overs for 114 runs picked up a couple of wickets, kept it really tight and let Strauss rotate the seamers, couldn't have asked anymore of him imo.

 

[centurymaker]

Pretty big downfall considering 8 months ago he played one of the best knocks of his career!

Reckon he's just not in form.

considering his age 8 month is a long time
at his age, he needs to play all the time to stay in good touch. he can't afford to take long breaks or playckey mouse cricket.

back to back limited overs cricket (world cup, then ipl) might've played a part in his poor current form.

he's 38, which is more like 40 for him given that he started at 16.

either he's just out of form or he's losing his ability.

 

[Jono]

Meh, same **** has been said about him every time he goes into a mini slump. I'll believe age is taking its toll when he actually struggles over a long period of time.

You don't go from being able to score a magnificent century against Steyn at his absolute best to being too old for the game in 8 months. It's a gradual process.

 

[Jacknife]

I haven't got a clue how he handles milestones, apparently he gets very twitchy about them but it defo could be one of the reasons why he's looked so unsettled at the crease, today especially he looked mentally a bit shot.

 

[Jono]

If he's not playing well and is nervous because he's on 99 international centuries he needs to sack up and pull his finger out.

 

[Jono]

Also, ****ing should have played Kohli this test instead of Raina. So annoying.

 

[BoyBrumby]

he got hit a few times in this 3rd test last year by southee.
3rd Test: India v New Zealand at Nagpur, Nov 20-23, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

before that I think he got hit once in bangladesh.

btw it was probably to do with broad's height (him ducking into that ball), he might have thought it was going to go over. broad's troubled him right through this series. his height's messed up sachin's foot work. doesn't know whether to go forward or back at times.

so far he's only looked good twice in 7 innings- 2nd innings at TB, 2nd innings edgbaston. He's been too erratic.

Was pinged once by Bres too tho and, although not short, he isn't in the Broad category of loftiness.

Also, ****ing should have played Kohli this test instead of Raina. So annoying.

Yeah. Baffling decision. Made one of the worst ducks you're ever likely to see and gave the impression of being all at sea.

In all seriousness I don't think picking him when he looks shot is doing him any favours either.

 

[Jono]

Off topic, but how awesome was it when Dravid got that absolute jaffer from Broad and played and missed it, and his reaction was to just smile at how awesome that ball was.

Was a nice tough. Just quality test cricket really. Been few and far between.

Dravid haters can go suck on a lemon.

 

[Howe_zat]

Off topic, but how awesome was it when Dravid got that absolute jaffer from Broad and played and missed it, and his reaction was to just smile at how awesome that ball was.

Was a nice tough. Just quality test cricket really. Been few and far between.

Absolutely. Loved that period when Dravid and Tendulkar were batting, it was a proper Test battle out there.

 

[hazsa19]

Doing badly in three and well does not mean your series is rescued.

It's a bit of a tangent since he hasn't been bowled as much as he hasn't been needed, but clearly one of the correct predictions about the series has been that India will generally end up playing him well, which they have.

All you can ask of your spinner in England is that he keeps things tight on an unresponsive pitch, and picks up a few on a pitch like this one.

At Lords he bowled nicely. Although India were bowled out twice for less than 300, the bowling effort was more one of creating pressure on a pretty flat deck, rather than the destruction we saw at TB and Edgbaston.

Swann bowled 19 overs in the first innings, 22 in the second, each time at an economy of less than 3. The 3 seamers simply wouldn't be able to bowl teams out on the pitches like Lords without Swann's control. They rotate at the other end and build pressure together with Swann; he is vital.

I think you can pretty much discount TB and Edgbaston. At TB he bowled while in a lot of pain 1st innings, before the seamers made hay in the 2nd. When he was asked to bowl the Indian lower order had nothing to lose by slogging. Same situation at Edgbaston.

At the Oval hes finally found a pitch with a bit of turn and bounce. Hes taken 3-27 so far while the opposition leggy suffered figures of 0-170.

 

[GIMH]

Hating Dravid is unforgiveable.

Nonetheless. A young lad I know, aged 24. He loves the mighty whites and he loves the England cricket team. Today he was defeated by cancer. It would mean a lot to me if you just took five seconds to bow your head and pay your respects. It's a cruel world. A **** world. But the more positive messages go out the better his family will feel.

RIP Antony. 4-0 will be for you.