*Official* Second Test at Trent Bridge

[Uppercut]

India to get rolled even harder at TB, for mine. Zaheer is a massive loss and the short turn-around gives them almost no time to recover.

Inclined to agree. Things just don't look good for them.

Just about the only positive for India is that they usually improve as the series goes on. And hence that's been repeated ad nauseam by fans, pundits and commentators who have nothing else positive to say about their chances.

 

[Cevno]

Well, atleast we will have four full bowlers(No Dhoni bowling) and a fit Sachin,So that's a positive.

Plus, Looking forward to see what Praveen can do at Trent Bridge. What's the carry like there usually?

 

[Top_Cat]

Yes that is very possible.

As I said in the other thread, if you're going to pick Zaheer, you might have to risk it with a five man attack and maybe use him for shorter bursts.

Not a fan of picking the team on the basis that a player might get injured, tbh. Reckon a team is always better off picking the best of who's left and backing them over the gun who's unfit, crocked and may break down on day 1 again. Not least of all because it compromises an already iffy batting line-up but most of all because it promotes who's left to focus and work as a team knowing they're it and there's no safety net.

An example; 1995 in the WI, marque series 1vs 2, right before the series started the Aussies lost their best and, incidentally, most injury-prone bowler, Craig McDermott. During the ODI series, they lost number 2, Damien Fleming. That left a solid Paul Reiffel, an erratic Brendon Julian and an unproven Glenn McGrath. The situation forced BJ to have his one and only good Test series as a bowler and, obviously, was the making of McGrath with Reiffel also having a great series. Never under-estimate the galvanising effect on a team of an adversarial situation.

One thing the '95 team had over this team was Shane Warne, of course, but I don't think he ever really bowled well over there.

 

[Uppercut]

Well, atleast we will have four full bowlers(No Dhoni bowling) and a fit Sachin.

Plus, Looking forward to see what Praveen can do at Trent Bridge. What's the carry like there usually?

It's usually pretty good. You don't get away with too many nicks.

I don't think that favours India, though.

 

[Cevno]

It's usually pretty good. You don't get away with too many nicks.

I don't think that favours India, though.

Yes it does.

Indian bowlers are slower and shorter, so get less natural carry. More carry from the pitch added to the swing makes them more threatening. Praveen got a few nicks on the first day which fell short from both Strauss and KP with more carry those will go in the air.

Irfan Pathan at Perth will attest to this. Plus Ishant is a better bowler when there is bounce on the pitch.

 

[Top_Cat]

Think he's inferring that the English bowlers will use those conditions better than the Indians and I absolutely agree with that.

 

[silentstriker]

Not a fan of picking the team on the basis that a player might get injured, tbh. Reckon a team is always better off picking the best of who's left and backing them over the gun who's unfit, crocked and may break down on day 1 again. Not least of all because it compromises an already iffy batting line-up but most of all because it promotes who's left to focus and work as a team knowing they're it and there's no safety net.

I completely agree. But Zaheer is an exception for his value in this series. You wouldn't do this for any other player.

 

[Top_Cat]

In my opinion, that sort of thinking over-estimates how good he is and under-estimates the back-up. If the other Indian pacers keep getting told they're the opening act to the Zaheer Khan show, it's no surprise when they bowl accordingly.

Give someone like Sharma his head and he could be anything, in my view.

 

[silentstriker]

In my opinion, that sort of thinking over-estimates how good he is and under-estimates the back-up. If the other Indian pacers keep getting told they're the opening act to the Zaheer Khan show, it's no surprise when they bowl accordingly.

Give someone like Sharma his head and he could be anything, in my view.

If Indian pacers don't want to be the opening to the Zaheer Khan show, maybe they should try bowling like they aren't playing for U-13 3rd XI.

IMO Zaheer's contributions can't really be overstated atm.

 

[centurymaker]

sreesanth, ishant, and praveen can pick up a bag of wickets when they bowl well and the conditions suit them. (2 of them have already shown that in this test), so zaheer should defenitely not play in the 2nd test.

 

[Cevno]

The other Indian pacers in again being underestimated shocker.

Zaheer is very good mind you,but the others are not that bad and both did a fair job in this match and just lacked the third support.

 

[Uppercut]

Yes it does.

Indian bowlers are slower and shorter, so get less natural carry. More carry from the pitch added to the swing makes them more threatening. Praveen got a few nicks on the first day which fell short from both Strauss and KP with more carry those will go in the air.

Irfan Pathan at Perth will attest to this. Plus Ishant is a better bowler when there is bounce on the pitch.

There's nothing there that I'd disagree with but it's only 1/4 of the equation. You also need to think about how it affects the English bowling, and the two batting lineups.

 

[Cevno]

sreesanth, ishant, and praveen can pick up a bag of wickets when they bowl well and the conditions suit them. (2 of them have already shown that in this test), so zaheer should defenitely not play in the 2nd test.

Depends on what type of pitch it is really.

If the pitch is the usual low scoring about 250/300 is par trent bridge wicket that favors the seamers, then it makes sense to drop Bhajji and take a gamble on Zaheer with 4 seamers.

It is not like Harbhajan is going to be anything more than a fill in for the same overs in such a scenario without turn and the focus should be on getting the opposition out as early as possible and have attacking bowlers.

 

[Uppercut]

Trent Bridge is far from the worst place in the world to bowl spin fwiw.

 

[Top_Cat]

If Indian pacers don't want to be the opening to the Zaheer Khan show, maybe they should try bowling like they aren't playing for U-13 3rd XI.

How quickly we forget Sharma was man of the series in the WI and decimated the English top-order in the second dig. Yeah he bowled like crap in the 1st but he's 22 and on his first English tour dealing with the Lords slope, days like that are going to happen. Once he found his length, he was sensational and was good enough to re-open a few English batters' wounds; Bell's dismissal looked suspiciously 2005-esque in the tentative way his back-foot moved (or didn't) and the way he set-up KP and Trott was fantastic.

Kumar obvs bowled well and I stand by my contention pre-series that Sreesanth is potentially lethal in English conditions. It's not hopeless for India's pacers but acting like it is ain't helping.

 

[Cevno]

Trent Bridge is far from the worst place in the world to bowl spin fwiw.

Spinners have taken 3 out of 69 wickets in the last 2 matches there.

As i said it depends on the pitch conditions being the same, but it is not like Harbhajan is bowling superbly at the moment.

 

[Jarquis]

Wouldn't say he set up KP. The bloke only faced 2 balls from him. Was clever bowling as KP likes to just press forward regardless.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah and he realised that quickly. Brilliant bowling.

 

[centurymaker]

if india lose the next test, it'll be because of their batting, not their bowling.

 

[Jarquis]

Yeah and he realised that quickly. Brilliant bowling.

Yeah, was a definite plan but KP wasn't set up per se.