Are England The Real Deal?

[Cevno]

Yeah and I think Zaheer does his best work with the older ball where he'll be running into Cook or Trott well on the way to a ton or Bell who plays the reversing ball quite well, is in good touch and probably overdue to really dominate an opponent. Says a lot about the strength of the English batting right now that KP's and Strauss's form problems have been getting lots of press but not only is the team still winning, they're utterly dominating some opponents.

I think you are confusing what he does in Indian conditions and in English conditions.
In India the new ball does not swing much.

He has always been threatening with the new ball in places like England and SA. India can get someone like Praveen kumar in to be a threat with the new ball too.

 

[hang on]

i just hope that the series lives upto its billing as a must watch cracker and doesnt end up being ruined by the weather or a rout for either team.

while england's bowling is good, the indian bowling is not as abysmal as being made out. khan and singh are very good bowlers.

regarding a comment that the lankan batting is not weak compared to any other: it is weak compared to india's overall and especially when english conditions are concerned. it wouldn't be stretching it to say that it is weak compared to the saffers' as well.

 

[Howe_zat]

Interesting to note Morkel ranked ahead of Zaheer. Shaky claim.

The rankings tend to penalise players for not playing as much too. So that's impressive results from the South Africans. On the other hand, I don't think they take conditions into account.

Speaking of conditions, It's curious to see people say that Zaheer will benefit from English conditions when his biggest weapon is reverse swing. He's still a cracking bowler but just because he swings it doesn't mean conditions are suited to his style.

 

[weldone]

India can get someone like Praveen kumar in to be a threat with the new ball too.

Praveen will be an awesome prospect as an opening bowler in English conditions. I doubt if he'll get the selectors' nod over Sree and Ishant, but he definitely should. He can be more devastating with the new ball than even Zaheer if given the chance.

 

[Howe_zat]

Praveen's control and extra batting would also allow you to play Mishra ahead of Harbhajan as the more attacking option. That's what I'd do at least, depending on how well Mishra does against the Windies.

 

[GIMH]

Steyn is ****ing ***y

My prediction: (completely based on hunches)

Draw 1-1 (Lose the first game, win the second, escape a defeat in the third because of rain )
Sachin to average 70+
Zaheer to average 30 with the ball
Sree to average 3^n where n is the number of times he gets slapped by harbhajan
Ishant 40
Harbhajan 25
Swann will win MOTS
Dravid will retire
Our new no.6 will score one 50 on the whole tour
Anderson will rape
Broad will be raped
Cook and Strauss to be the best batsmen for England.

What's gonna happen in the fourth?

 

[centurymaker]

IMO Steyn is far better than either Anderson or Zaheer

Yeah, Bowls faster and generates more movement than the other two- He produces banana shaped swing and the great pronounced movement happens late, which makes it far more difficult for the batsman.

Plus, he's a smarter bowler than Zaheer and Anderson. He just works the batsman out with his subtle variations.

 

[Cevno]

Interesting to note Morkel ranked ahead of Zaheer. Shaky claim.

The rankings tend to penalise players for not playing as much too. So that's impressive results from the South Africans. On the other hand, I don't think they take conditions into account.

Speaking of conditions, It's curious to see people say that Zaheer will benefit from English conditions when his biggest weapon is reverse swing. He's still a cracking bowler but just because he swings it doesn't mean conditions are suited to his style.

Why wouldn't they ?

Conditions in England specially if they get more cloudy etc.. later on have always helped swing bowlers. And this applies to Anderson too.
Even bowlers like Maninder Singh and Chetan Sharma have done well for India in the past in England because of conditions helping them.
Zaheer did well in his county stint too and the last time India toured there with the new ball and is a better bowler since both.
He is more dependant on reverse swing in conditions where the new ball does not swing as much but can use the new ball pretty well too when it does swing.
And Same applies to Anderson who will equally benefit from whatever conditions are there.

 

[Cevno]

What's gonna happen in the fourth?

Obviously will be called off because of Anderson raping Broad mid tour .

 

[Cevno]

Praveen's control and extra batting would also allow you to play Mishra ahead of Harbhajan as the more attacking option. That's what I'd do at least, depending on how well Mishra does against the Windies.

Yep.
That is what i would do as well. Though both would be risky moves that i doubt the Indian management would take ,specially together.

Mishra can cause more trouble than Harbhajan as it is when he gets it right but depends how he is bowling when the time arrives.

 

[vcs]

Think Praveen's prowess is starting to get ever so slightly over-rated on here. Then again, the alternatives are dire as well, I guess.

 

[Howe_zat]

Think Praveen's prowess is starting to get ever so slightly over-rated on here. Then again, the alternatives are dire as well, I guess.

He doesn't really seem to be rated all that highly by his fans. It's just a case of having a guy who's done well in domestic cricket, there are places yet to be nailed down, and in theory his style will work. I guess if they're going to play him at all, it should be here.

 

[vcs]

Don't exactly see him being a wrecking ball with the new ball TBH. And can see him becoming fodder for the likes of Pietersen and Trott after 10 or so overs. Ishant Sharma might bowl unthreatening rubbish, but can see him keeping the runs down at least (if he can sort out his no ball problems).

Also, I looked up Joginder Sharma's stats in FC cricket. He averages less than 21 over a pretty decent number of matches! Made me wonder a bit about how seriously to take the stats.

 

[honestbharani]

Why wouldn't they ?

Conditions in England specially if they get more cloudy etc.. later on have always helped swing bowlers. And this applies to Anderson too.
Even bowlers like Maninder Singh and Chetan Sharma have done well for India in the past in England because of conditions helping them.
Zaheer did well in his county stint too and the last time India toured there with the new ball and is a better bowler since both.
He is more dependant on reverse swing in conditions where the new ball does not swing as much but can use the new ball pretty well too when it does swing.
And Same applies to Anderson who will equally benefit from whatever conditions are there.

Isn't Maninder Singh a spinner?

 

[Cevno]

Isn't Maninder Singh a spinner?

Yep.
He did well there due to the conditions helping him on that tour too.

Can replace him with Madan Lal or Rp Singh maybe from the top of my head if you want too.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Haha, predicting a won or possibly drawn series is being arrogant now?

Selective quoting for the win. Let's just ignore the vast amount of post he's made which rubbish everything England have done in the past 2 years.

 

[Cevno]

Tbf he was responding to GF ,who does the same in a opposite way.

Said Harbhajan singh was not in the same league as Swann and India bowlers were Bangladesh standard in the past.
In this thread is claiming a one way series ,a whitewash or a 3-0 win.

 

[Xuhaib]

Think Praveen's prowess is starting to get ever so slightly over-rated on here. Then again, the alternatives are dire as well, I guess.

yeah if its not a green seamer can see him become a liability after his first spell.

 

[Daemon]

Don't exactly see him being a wrecking ball with the new ball TBH. And can see him becoming fodder for the likes of Pietersen and Trott after 10 or so overs. Ishant Sharma might bowl unthreatening rubbish, but can see him keeping the runs down at least (if he can sort out his no ball problems).

Also, I looked up Joginder Sharma's stats in FC cricket. He averages less than 21 over a pretty decent number of matches! Made me wonder a bit about how seriously to take the stats.

Agree with both points. Playing PK in a tour game would be the best indication of how he'd fare.

imo the only way Indian FC stats should be used is to seperate the top from the mediocre/rubbish. Once you have that small pool it's basically up to their performances in A tours, and maybe ODI's just to see whether they are suited or just really out of depth in international cricket. Not saying that outstanding FC performances should be ignored though.

 

[Daemon]

What's gonna happen in the fourth?

I said 1-1 so obviously a draw. Just because I didn't mention the averages of the rest of the players doesn't mean I predict they'll average 0

Harbhajan will average more than 25 in England. Mid 30's.

But Zaheer will average in the low 20's atleast. He averaged 20 point something the last tour and he is a better bowler now.

All that was based on hunches tbh Can somehow foresee Bhajji doing really well