Are England The Real Deal?

[Furball]

Cook's batted in 5 innings in 2011 and his lowest score is 96.

There's not a batsman in the world who on current form merits a spot ahead of Cook in any hypothetical lineup.

 

[Furball]

You don't fear Sehwag? No offence but what ****ing planet are you on? He's the most dangerous player in world cricket and could potentially take us to the cleaners..

I don't, I reckon Jimmeh will own Sehwag this summer.

 

[Uppercut]

I'd probably have Prior over Dhoni, ignoring captaincy for the sake of simplicity. Technical weaknesses that almost no one is ever good enough to exploit aren't a good enough reason to leave someone out for a player that's been consistently scoring less runs for a decent period.

 

[Spark]

You know your bowling stocks have issues when "bowling consistently on the stumps" is considered too difficult

 

[vcs]

Would have Dhoni comfortably above Prior in the subcontinent (he'd be better with the bat as well as the gloves, especially to spin) and Prior outside.

 

[Howe_zat]

Would have Dhoni comfortably above Prior in the subcontinent (he'd be better with the bat as well as the gloves, especially to spin) and Prior outside.

With them batting in Asia, there's only really ODI results to support that though, isn't there? And Prior is pretty anomalous with regards to how much better he is in Tests.

 

[MW1304]

Would suggest that scoring back-to-back 10000s may be a touch beyond him.

Wouldn't bet against it.

(Although I would definitely bet against it).

 

[Teja.]

@flibbertyjibber

While I'd certainly have Cook over Gambhir aws, even in the sub-continent, It's pretty poor not to consider Gambhir a threat just because he hasn't toured England before. Yes, These stats have been stated before but they're worth repeating anyway. Gambhir averages 44 at home and 64 away. He averages 76 outside the Sub-continent and 46 inside. 89 in NZ and 61 in SA. Regardless of how bad/clueless he might look if there's bounce and movement, He scores runs, people!

 

[vcs]

With them batting in Asia, there's only really ODI results to support that though, isn't there? And Prior is pretty anomalous with regards to how much better he is in Tests.

Haven't watched enough of Prior batting in Tests in the subcontinent TBH. But I'd strongly consider Dhoni for his keeping to spin alone in those sort of conditions. Not a knock on Prior who's very tidy, but Dhoni's glove-work to spin has been particularly impressive in recent times.

 

[zaremba]

Yeah a very fine batsman that Gambhir chap. Will be interesting to see how he goes here, no reason why he won't be able to do well.

With regard to the OP, it's pretty obvious that England are a good, well-mananged and well-led team with some fine players and the mental strength to do well in important situations. They might get to world no.1 at some point soon, but that's by no means certain; and if they did there wouldn't be much space between them and a pack of 2 or 3 other teams. As a long-suffering England fan, I'm happy to call that sort of a team the "real deal".

 

[Howe_zat]

Haven't watched enough of Prior batting in Tests in the subcontinent TBH. But I'd strongly consider Dhoni for his keeping to spin alone in those sort of conditions. Not a knock on Prior who's very tidy, but Dhoni's glove-work to spin has been particularly impressive in recent times.

True on the glovework. Prior's strength - the area he's improved since being dropped for poor keeping - is his footwork when standing back, allowing him some impressive takes based on how far he can get across.

His hands still aren't the best though, and when standing up he's still prone to the odd fumbled stumping. That's the area Dhoni has the edge.

As for Prior batting in Tests in the subcontinent, he's done reasonably but hasn't gone there in his current run, which is why we'd have to go to ODI figures to really split the two. And that doesn't help, as Prior is rather exceptionally better in Tests than in ODIs.

 

[Furball]

@flibbertyjibber

While I'd certainly have Cook over Gambhir aws, even in the sub-continent, It's pretty poor not to consider Gambhir a threat just because he hasn't toured England before. Yes, These stats have been stated before but they're worth repeating anyway. Gambhir averages 44 at home and 64 away. He averages 76 outside the Sub-continent and 46 inside. 89 in NZ and 61 in SA. Regardless of how bad/clueless he might look if there's bounce and movement, He scores runs, people!

Whilst I agree 100% with your point I still think it's a valid point.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah a very fine batsman that Gambhir chap. Will be interesting to see how he goes here, no reason why he won't be able to do well.

With regard to the OP, it's pretty obvious that England are a good, well-mananged and well-led team with some fine players and the mental strength to do well in important situations. They might get to world no.1 at some point soon, but that's by no means certain; and if they did there wouldn't be much space between them and a pack of 2 or 3 other teams. As a long-suffering England fan, I'm happy to call that sort of a team the "real deal".

Sounds right. I agree with what's already been said about needing to perform in the subcontinent before being placed on the highest level. I'd also like to see the bad performances be not quite so bad: it's one thing to recognise that they won't always hit the absolute heights, but the thrashings in Perth and the final SA test, as well as the sheer awfulness of the bowling at Lord's last week, need to be removed from their repertoire.

Beyond that, the coming series against India will tell us a lot. We haven't beaten them over a whole series since 1996, and even now I think some folks are underestimating them and wandering into cliche territory about how they're bound to fold in English conditions.

 

[Spark]

You still got a first innings lead at Lord's. It wasn't that bad - I can say that from experience.

 

[Shri]

India are playing some tour games this time. Rare chance to hit the ground running for us when the test series starts.

 

[Uppercut]

You still got a first innings lead at Lord's. It wasn't that bad - I can say that from experience.

It demonstrated quite nicely how much better everyone looks when Jimmeh is taking wickets at the other end. He's the difference between "kept it tight" and "offered no threat".

 

[Spark]

It demonstrated quite nicely how much better everyone looks when Jimmeh is taking wickets at the other end. He's the difference between "kept it tight" and "offered no threat".

It didn't help that you bowled about as many balls on the stumps as I have digits, tbf. That was unusual. No idea what happened to Tremlett in particular, maybe "attack leader" got to his head a bit.

 

[wpdavid]

It didn't help that you bowled about as many balls on the stumps as I have digits, tbf. That was unusual. No idea what happened to Tremlett in particular, maybe "attack leader" got to his head a bit.

Can anyone explain to me exactly what is meant by 'leading the attack'. My immediate reaction has always been that at best its simply bollox and at worst it's counter-productive in reducing the level of responsibility required of the rest of the bowlers and going to the head of said 'leader'. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

[Furball]

India are playing some tour games this time. Rare chance to hit the ground running for us when the test series starts.

Tour game (singular). Sri Lanka's series prep is much more comprehensive.

 

[Howe_zat]

Beyond that, the coming series against India will tell us a lot. We haven't beaten them over a whole series since 1996, and even now I think some folks are underestimating them and wandering into cliche territory about how they're bound to fold in English conditions.

That definately worries me a bit. It's not a completely illogical line of thought, but some of the statements about how Sehwag or Gambhir can't score runs in England are starting to uncomfortably echo the statements that Jimmy wouldn't be able to take wickets in Australia. Just got to play well enough and you're golden.

It didn't help that you bowled about as many balls on the stumps as I have digits, tbf. That was unusual. No idea what happened to Tremlett in particular, maybe "attack leader" got to his head a bit.

Quite. I don't know what happened to him either. You expect that sort of thing from Finn, but Tremlett's just better than that. Still, as you said, the fact that was easily our worst bowling performance in over a year and we still got into a good position to win that game but for the rain, says a lot.