Should we be patient with Michael Beer?

[Top_Cat]

Well, if it can't be verified by video, it simply didn't happen. Your pathetic, probably biased eyewitness account means nothing to me, we need more statistics POST HASTE!

EDIT: Jason Krejza was hit for 160% more singles by Ganguly than Simon Katich during the course of his 12/fer. Clearly Katich is a better spinning option.

Rob, we need footage.

 

[vcs]

Krejza bowled some very good wicket-taking deliveries in that 12-for. Sure, there was a lot of dross as well, which was why he conceded 350+, but it's wrong to say he picked up that haul because batsmen gave their wickets away.

 

[tooextracool]

Doesnt have anything to do with wicket taking deliveries. He was an unknown name, came in and tossed the ball up and invited all the Indians to go after him. The Indian batsmen happily obliged and slaughtered him but also lost their wickets in the process. A bold strategy to toss the ball up and continue to do so while going at almost 5 an over but just because he got wickets and used flight to invite the batsmen to go after him, it doesnt mean that he bowled wicket taking deliveries.

 

[weldone]

Doesnt have anything to do with wicket taking deliveries. He was an unknown name, came in and tossed the ball up and invited all the Indians to go after him. The Indian batsmen happily obliged and slaughtered him but also lost their wickets in the process. A bold strategy to toss the ball up and continue to do so while going at almost 5 an over but just because he got wickets and used flight to invite the batsmen to go after him, it doesnt mean that he bowled wicket taking deliveries.

This.

 

[Nate]

 

[robelinda]

Well, if it can't be verified by video, it simply didn't happen. Your pathetic, probably biased eyewitness account means nothing to me, we need more statistics POST HASTE!

EDIT: Jason Krejza was hit for 160% more singles by Ganguly than Simon Katich during the course of his 12/fer. Clearly Katich is a better spinning option.

Rob, we need footage.

Footage is what I do.

 

[Top_Cat]

Your powers are needed elsewhere, such as finding Troy Corbett footage.

Nice write-up about Nathan Lyon:

Nathan Lyon's green thumbs become green sprigs | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Nate]

 

[Cevno]

the way i see it is he got smashed in the tour match, got smashed in the test but got wickets & got smashed in the SA test and has basically been smashed all through his FC career and doesn't have a good enough strike rate to cancel out the smashing. he's not an option for me. yeah yeah yeah he took 12 but Massie took 16.....his debut match in terms of wickets is clearly an outlier in terms of his entire career.

Agreed.

 

[Cevno]

Krejza bowled some very good wicket-taking deliveries in that 12-for. Sure, there was a lot of dross as well, which was why he conceded 350+, but it's wrong to say he picked up that haul because batsmen gave their wickets away.

Doesnt have anything to do with wicket taking deliveries. He was an unknown name, came in and tossed the ball up and invited all the Indians to go after him. The Indian batsmen happily obliged and slaughtered him but also lost their wickets in the process. A bold strategy to toss the ball up and continue to do so while going at almost 5 an over but just because he got wickets and used flight to invite the batsmen to go after him, it doesnt mean that he bowled wicket taking deliveries.

He bowled some very good deliveries.

A few wicket taking deliveries were very good. I just saw highlights on Neo about a month back and one delivery to Laxman and a few to another batsman were pretty good and turned and kept low and even cleaned them up getting help from a turning track.

But at the same time he did now bowl 8 wicket good in the first innings. India collapsed at the end losing five wickets for like 18 runs because the batsman got ****y and tried to smash every bowler for some reason.
Plus on a turning track he bowled like 43/44 overs and his main co spinner was Cameron White who is not that good with the ball in tests.

At the same time though he bowled a lot of loose deliveries too and went at a too high RPO on that track.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think that Hauritz is the better option, but...

We're talking about a guy who did this on Test debut. We're analysing how he bowled, what he did, in his first match of Test cricket against the best players of spin in the world. He genuinely got people out that match. But as soon as he took one step backwards in a Test vs South Africa, he was out on his arse. It was as though we said, he can't learn how to be better in Test cricket because he's played 30 FC games.

Now we find ourselves making Beer and Smith learn their games at Test level. They are having to do two "levels", as such, of learning - how to get to FC level as a bowler, and Test level, at the same time!

 

[robelinda]

Agree.

 

[Debris]

Doesnt have anything to do with wicket taking deliveries. He was an unknown name, came in and tossed the ball up and invited all the Indians to go after him. The Indian batsmen happily obliged and slaughtered him but also lost their wickets in the process. A bold strategy to toss the ball up and continue to do so while going at almost 5 an over but just because he got wickets and used flight to invite the batsmen to go after him, it doesnt mean that he bowled wicket taking deliveries.

That used to be known as buying a wicket. It seems to have gone out of vogue with modern spinners but Arthur Mailey made a career out of it.

 

[Daemon]

That used to be known as buying a wicket. It seems to have gone out of vogue with modern spinners but Arthur Mailey made a career out of it.

Problem is there will be matches where he goes at 4-5 an over and picks up little to nothing. There really is no reason for him to be favoured over Hauritz.

 

[Debris]

Problem is there will be matches where he goes at 4-5 an over and picks up little to nothing. There really is no reason for him to be favoured over Hauritz.

I thought the argument was that he would pick up an extra 2-3 wickets a match as a trade-off. Wouldn't the extra 1-2 runs an over he concedes be worth it then? Every bowler has bad matches so I am not sure what that argument is about, it is the average over the career that counts.

 

[hang on]

I think that Hauritz is the better option, but...

We're talking about a guy who did this on Test debut. We're analysing how he bowled, what he did, in his first match of Test cricket against the best players of spin in the world. He genuinely got people out that match. But as soon as he took one step backwards in a Test vs South Africa, he was out on his arse. It was as though we said, he can't learn how to be better in Test cricket because he's played 30 FC games.

Now we find ourselves making Beer and Smith learn their games at Test level. They are having to do two "levels", as such, of learning - how to get to FC level as a bowler, and Test level, at the same time!

krejza's treatment was criminal. needed to be persisted with for a far longer period of time.
what happened to casson? and what were his parents thinking when they decided to name him beau?

 

[Spark]

krejza's treatment was criminal. needed to be persisted with for a far longer period of time.
what happened to casson? and what were his parents thinking when they decided to name him beau?

Depression IIRC.

 

[Nate]

Wasn't it his heart problem?

 

[Spark]

That would explain it too. Either way, it wasn't for strictly cricketing related reasons.

 

[SamSawnoff]

The people whose fault the mistreatment of spin bowlers is believe they are doing a great job so I wouldn't expect much to change.