Relegation: good thing or bad thing?

[benchmark00]

Haha but you haven't actually addressed my point... being promoted up and being **** in a higher competition isn't improving. Improving would be getting promoted and challenging for a trophy. There are obvious barriers to that, so they can't improve.

And competition?! Having only 3-4 teams with a realistic chance of winning the competition is not competition mate.

 

[Jarquis]

They weren't **** in a higher competition though. They were in League 1 and won that 2009/10, the very next season they finished 2nd in the Championship. If that's not being competitive in a higher competition I don't know what is.

Don't forget the Premiership isn't the only trophy in English Football. If you look elsewhere teams like Stoke City, Portsmouth, Everton, Cardiff City, West Ham United, Millwall, Southampton, Aston Villa, Birmingham City, Spuds, Wigan Athletic, Bolton Wanderers, Middlesborough, Blackburn Rovers, Leicester City and Tranmere Rovers have all made/won domestic cup finals.

 

[benchmark00]

Mate I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse, but we're talking about the EPL here, not some bush soccer league. We're talking top flight. It's not like I'm talking about the Essendon District Football League or the VFL.

 

[Jarquis]

Bit different though as the AFL isn't divided by promotion/relegation

 

[morgieb]

How is the AFL any more equal? Surely there's inequalities between the best and worst teams in any given season?

True, but in contrast to the EPL, cycles/premiership windows are far shorter in the AFL.

 

[Burgey]

Why is equality the be all and end all? I don't get it.
There's nothing to stop a team becoming better in the Premiership, nothing.

I'd much prefer a completely unequal system than one which forces artificial equality through the likes of drafts and things. They're the biggest crock of **** ever.

That's not true, really. Money stops them. They can get better in the sense they can go from 10th to 7th, but so what, really?

I like the English PL system btw, I'm not saying it should change. Realistically it can't. But from a competitive POV it is lol-worthy to hear To and Froms take the pizz out of the Scottish League as a two horse race when realistically the English one is no more than a 3-5 horse race itself.

 

[Burgey]

This debate is not about (or at least no longer about) whether a draft or salary cap should be used in England or any European leagues. We understand it is not possible.

Its actually about the merits of a draft and salary cap when they are possible. Some have suggested in this thread that its undesirable, or worse, unfair... which is crazy afaic. If English football was the only game in town, and hence the best players would play come what may, are some people here saying they wouldn't prefer a salary cap to ensure that the amount of guernseys sold in Asia, because all they see is 4 teams all the time, doesn't determine success?

In the AFL right now St Kilda is the perfect example. They are not a rich club by any means, but they have had around 6-7 years of being constantly one of the best 4 clubs (barring one year where they brought in a new coach) and have been in Grand Finals or prelim/semi finals throughout. They had their window, and now they will have to rebuild, as the draft system has ensured that other clubs, provided they recruit correctly and run properly, have their chance. Carlton, Essendon and other teams who are financial powerhouses were struggling in the last half-decade and constantly near the bottom, but are coming good now.

It is a testament to the fact that despite your team being the worst in the league for 2-3 seasons, you know you won't always be there.

Swans a better example, ****. Except they rebuild and are still there or thereabouts the eight.

 

[morgieb]

Why is equality the be all and end all? I don't get it.
There's nothing to stop a team becoming better in the Premiership, nothing.

I'd much prefer a completely unequal system than one which forces artificial equality through the likes of drafts and things. They're the biggest crock of **** ever.

lol. The only way clubs can become gun in the EPL is if some Russian billionaire buys them.

 

[benchmark00]

Swans a better example, ****. Except they rebuild and are still there or thereabouts the eight.

Lol @ Sydney rebuilding. Sydney don't rebuild, they just accept mediocrity and 'being around the eight' because the market in which they operate is so fickle that they can't afford not to make finals. If they continue with the same mentality (which they wont have to because the Sydney market will become more and more AFL centric) they will never seriously challenge for a premiership.

 

[morgieb]

Lol @ Sydney rebuilding. Sydney don't rebuild, they just accept mediocrity and 'being around the eight' because the market in which they operate is so fickle that they can't afford not to make finals. If they continue with the same mentality (which they wont have to because the Sydney market will become more and more AFL centric) they will never seriously challenge for a premiership.

Remind me, when was the last time that North Melbourne won a premiership?

And the last time Sydney did?

Kthxbai.

 

[Burgey]

Lol @ Sydney rebuilding. Sydney don't rebuild, they just accept mediocrity and 'being around the eight' because the market in which they operate is so fickle that they can't afford not to make finals. If they continue with the same mentality (which they wont have to because the Sydney market will become more and more AFL centric) they will never seriously challenge for a premiership.

Buffoon

Remind me, when was the last time that North Melbourne won a premiership?

And the last time Sydney did?

Kthxbai.

Indeed.

 

[benchmark00]

Remind me, when was the last time that North Melbourne won a premiership?

And the last time Sydney did?

Kthxbai.

1999 and then before that 1996 against the same quasi team you're claiming to support.

So tell me how many premierships the Sydney Swans have won? And now tell me the last time they won one without needing salary cap concessions in the lead up?

Trust me, you can not win this battle. You support a franchise, not a club.

 

[Burgey]

1999 and then before that 1996 against the same quasi team you're claiming to support.

So tell me how many premierships the Sydney Swans have won? And now tell me the last time they won one without needing salary cap concessions in the lead up?

Trust me, you can not win this battle. You support a franchise, not a club.

Don't tell people what they do and don't support. It's entirely subjective.

 

[benchmark00]

Don't tell people what they do and don't support. It's entirely subjective.

No, this is not subjective. Sydney Swans ARE a franchise, as are GC and GWS will be. It is not a real club and in my eyes never ever will be. They are contrived, soulless and empty. Their attempt to tack onto the South Melboune bloods line absolutely sickens me.

 

[morgieb]

Your side lacks heart so much they ****ed off the "North Melbourne" name for a few years.

 

[Jono]

Swans a better example, ****. Except they rebuild and are still there or thereabouts the eight.

I know what you are saying, but Sydney are not relevant to my point because they aren't an example of a club being built on draft picks like St Kilda are.

St Kilda were rubbish in the early 2000s and received high draft picks as a result. They recruited very well by getting Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard, Ball (yeah they could have got Judd but still), Montagna, Kosi (kind of) etc.

They then became a force in the competition from 2004-2010 (barring one year of mediocrity in 2007 when they just got a new coach and had a new game plan which took a while to adjust).

However that 6-7 year window has now closed, and they need to rebuild again. Their fans accept that because they had a serious tilt at a premiership, came agonisingly close but couldn't get the biccies. That's how the business works. Now either they rebuild intelligently and come back in a few years (ala West Coast) or they take longer and are down for a while (ala Carlton and Essendon).

 

[Burgey]

No, this is not subjective. Sydney Swans ARE a franchise, as are GC and GWS will be. It is not a real club and in my eyes never ever will be. They are contrived, soulless and empty. Their attempt to tack onto the South Melboune bloods line absolutely sickens me.

Of course it's subjective, custard nuts. Tell a 7-10 year old kid who joins that they aren't a club. You've got your head up your own arse here mate.

 

[benchmark00]

Your side lacks heart so much they ****ed off the "North Melbourne" name for a few years.

Lollllll. If you knew anything about the game you would know that the one thing NM does have is heart. YouTube some north Melbourne videos to try and get some history of north Melbourne. No heart?? The poorest team in the league standing up to the AFL and saying we don't want to go to the GC in the face of threats that they will financially cripple us is nothing if not heart buddy. Being the team of the 90's despite being the poorest is heart, chump. Research what you're talking about before making ill informed and offensive comments in the future thanks.

 

[benchmark00]

Of course it's subjective, custard nuts. Tell a 7-10 year old kid who joins that they aren't a club. You've got your head up your own arse here mate.

It all makes sense now. The innate ramblings, the nonsensical posts - you're actually 7 years old!

I will tell that to the parents who encourage them to support that organisation, especially considering they love to ramble on about how much passion and heart the club has I feel it's my right, nay duty, to educate them that it's all full of ****.

 

[morgieb]

Lollllll. If you knew anything about the game you would know that the one thing NM does have is heart. YouTube some north Melbourne videos to try and get some history of north Melbourne. No heart?? The poorest team in the league standing up to the AFL and saying we don't want to go to the GC in the face of threats that they will financially cripple us is nothing if not heart buddy. Being the team of the 90's despite being the poorest is heart, chump. Research what you're talking about before making ill informed and offensive comments in the future thanks.

lol as if you took that seriously. My point, Sydney aren't really a franchise.