Cook Vs the WI quartet of the 80s

[salman85]

on a typical OZ or SA pitch for example I would take the Aussie attack.

If you're the batsman,then yes.

 

[centurymaker]

No.Amir was better than Harris.

Gul is as good as if not better than Bollinger.

Bollinger better than Gul in tests by a fair margin
Amir maybe have been better than Harris, too close to call.

 

[centurymaker]

If you're the batsman,then yes.

Gul has an avg of 34 in tests.............
Your trio didn't do all that well in aus, did they? except asif

 

[TumTum]

If you're the batsman,then yes.

The point is the Pakistani attack still has many weaknesses:
- Asif struggles when the pitch is flat, can't bowl short, treated like a medium pacer really
- Amir is still young, lacks experience
- Gul has yet to prove himself at Test level, personally I think he has a really ugly action

 

[Xuhaib]

Bollinger has only bullied rubbish batting line ups that too at home difficult to say he is better then Gul. Aamer bowled the spell of the summer at Melbourne got injured for the 2nd test and played half fit in the 3rd however hard to discount his summer efforts until the no balls Harris just had one good test and then got inured. Useless comparison struggle to see both playing another test for different reasons.

The only place the Aus attack will do better is in Aus as they are better aware of the conditions Pakistan attack would have owned them in any other conditions.

 

[Xuhaib]

The point is the Pakistani attack still has many weaknesses:
- Asif struggles when the pitch is flat, can't bowl short, treated like a medium pacer really
- Amir is still young, lacks experience
- Gul has yet to prove himself at Test level, personally I think he has a really ugly action

and how good was the Aus attack in flat conditons this summer.Its a myth that only medium pacers struggle on flat pitches Steyn, Morkal were ineffective on flat tracks in UAE.Asif has won tests on his own in sub cont against SL and India there is a reason he averages 23 in FC cricket despite playing all his cricket in Pakistan.One of the best medium pacer on a dry dusty pitch .

 

[smash84]

The point is the Pakistani attack still has many weaknesses:
- Asif struggles when the pitch is flat, can't bowl short, treated like a medium pacer really

Asif is one of the best flat track bowlers of the 00s. In his 23 test matches he has 106 wickets at less than 25. Most of it he has played in the SC so I wonder where you get that notion from.

The only place that he is less than stellar is Aus and there too he bowled outstandingly in the 2nd test at Sydney.

Also what a fallacy that if a bowler can't bowl short he is not a good bowler

 

[GotSpin]

Why are Amir and Asif even being discussed. They're banned for cheating

 

[Athlai]

Strange how all the discussion has very little to do with the point of natural progression of athleticism in professional sport.

 

[Jacknife]

I'd be surprised if he has said any of this and it's only the other day, he was wrongly quoted about England going on strike because of too much cricket and tbh if he did give such a interview, it would be on Cricinfo and such places, especially when the so called article is from 10 days ago.

 

[Borges]

Just don't know what to make of all this. If the comments attributed to Cook were actually made by him - whether he was quoted out of context or not is immaterial IMHO; those are asinine comments in any context (other than Bradman vs. Tendulkar or UDRS on Cricket Web) - let me just state that I'm thoroughly disappointed in the cricketing acumen of a player who has been touted as a future captain of his national side.

Either that or the poor quality of Aussie bowling doesn't take anything away from his performance in Australia though. While statistics don't reveal everything, selective statistics tend to conceal even more.

Strange how all the discussion has very little to do with the point of natural progression of athleticism in professional sport.

Don't think anyone will disagree with Cook on that particular point; because it is so obviously true.

 

[Athlai]

Martin Crowe mentions in his book that Marshall and co. were extremely lax when they toured New Zealand bowling at speeds that seemed extremely comfortable to him and only really bowled particularly quick once or twice on the tour. He mentions that they played a lot harder at home though. Though his lesser skilled brother managed to grind out a lot of runs just by keeping his head down against them.

The only player Crowe singles out as being threateningly fast is Lillee.

(This is a book of his he made mid-career coming out around 1990)

 

[smash84]

which book is this???

is a pdf version available??

 

[Athlai]

which book is this???

is a pdf version available??

 

[smash84]

looks good.........

 

[Athlai]

Purchased for a dollar, was pleased to discover it was also signed by Martin.

 

[TumTum]

and how good was the Aus attack in flat conditons this summer.Its a myth that only medium pacers struggle on flat pitches Steyn, Morkal were ineffective on flat tracks in UAE.Asif has won tests on his own in sub cont against SL and India there is a reason he averages 23 in FC cricket despite playing all his cricket in Pakistan.One of the best medium pacer on a dry dusty pitch .

Using only certain occasions as examples to prove a point does not make it correct in a general sense.

I never said medium pacers struggle on flat pitches and fast pacers do not. I said Asif gets treated like a medium pacers (batsman walking at him, plenty of time to play shots etc). This is due to his inability or lack of effectiveness at bowling short.

FC is not Test.

Asif is one of the best flat track bowlers of the 00s. In his 23 test matches he has 106 wickets at less than 25. Most of it he has played in the SC so I wonder where you get that notion from.

The only place that he is less than stellar is Aus and there too he bowled outstandingly in the 2nd test at Sydney.

Also what a fallacy that if a bowler can't bowl short he is not a good bowler

Just because he bowled in the 00s doesn't mean he bowled on flat pitches. 23 matches is hardly anything.

No he has actually played 6 in SC, 17 away from SC.

Bowling short is one of the main weapons in a pacers armory It is clearly his weakness is it not?

And btw where did I say Asif isn't a good bowler?

 

[Spark]

dude you do know that you are proving my point even more.

Fine let's use your premise. Amir is ordinary.

Now Cook couldn't do anything against an ordinary bowlers so how would you expect him to do well against ATG bowlers.

And tbf to Asif he bowled marvelously well in the 2nd test in Aus. In the third test all the morale had been lost thanks to Khatmal's keeping.

Asif bowled reasonably in the 3rd Test too. Two excellent players in form and refusing to nick the many deliveries that beat the edge and most of all lolpakistan catching got him down there.

 

[smash84]

Depends where they play tbh. On a green top its Pak all the way, but on a typical OZ or SA pitch for example I would take the Aussie attack.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Here is Asif's record so it seems that he would edge out most (if not all) Aussie bowlers on SA decks.

Just because he bowled in the 00s doesn't mean he bowled on flat pitches. 23 matches is hardly anything.

No he has actually played 6 in SC, 17 away from SC.

Bowling short is one of the main weapons in a pacers armory It is clearly his weakness is it not?

And btw where did I say Asif isn't a good bowler?

Depends on how you define a bowler's weakness. It is like saying that bowling the googly was Shane Warne's weakness. It was a weakness in a sense but Warne just didn't need it. While bowlers such as Mushtaq Ahmed, Abdul Qadir, and Kaneria put it to great use. So the inability to bowl certain types of deliveries I will not classify as a weakness.

 

[smash84]

Asif bowled reasonably in the 3rd Test too. Two excellent players in form and refusing to nick the many deliveries that beat the edge and most of all lolpakistan catching got him down there.

Yeah. This