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Forum Rule Changes including Introduction of Infraction System

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four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
I'm not going to get into a slanging match with you. It's quite clear we both have different opinions on the current moderation, and it's unlikely either of us are going to be persuaded otherwise. I don't think extended emails back and forth, or exchanges on the forum, really have much point when we have entrenched opposing opinions - it's basically a stubborness competition.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I don't want a slanging match either.

However, I am sick of the drive-by argument style you guys employ in emails and on here, and just because you're moderators doesn't mean everything you do is right. Would be nice if you addressed opposing points once in a while.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
I also find it hilarious that you have all just stopped responding when I keep bringing up the inconsistency in warning v infraction for Furball and me. That would be because you don't have any justification for it. I am used to that now as it's a familiar pattern in my discussions with the mod team as a whole, both in this thread and via email.
Let me clearly address your point about inconsistency regarding your warning vs. Furball’s infraction. In the collective view of the moderation team, Furball deserved an infraction instead of a warning because he was coming off a ban and jumped right into the type of posting that had resulted in his banning to begin with. You obviously feel that he should’ve been given a warning and his ban should’ve had no impact on his subsequent posting. We’ve now debated this issue extensively and we obviously disagree. Therefore, we’re choosing to move on as the infraction will not be reversed. If you insist on bringing this up over and over and we don’t respond, that doesn’t mean we don’t have a justification. We’ve already provided it – you disagree with it, there’s nothing further to debate and hence we consider the matter closed.

I don't want a slanging match either.

However, I am sick of the drive-by argument style you guys employ in emails and on here, and just because you're moderators doesn't mean everything you do is right. Would be nice if you addressed opposing points once in a while.
We DO address opposing points. This thread is 49 pages long BECAUSE we have addressed opposing points. GIMH – I say this with all due respect, but you are very stubborn in your opinions and do not budge from them. We’ve been answering your points about consistency and your perception of poor moderation for pages upon pages and through emails. Each time we do, we end up in circular arguments as you basically refuse to accept any of our points and keep repeating yours. It’s clear that we have a disagreement about moderation. There’s no point in getting into another 49 page debate repeating the same points that were made in the previous 49. Eventually one tires of this, concludes that there is a disagreement that won't be resolved, and moves on. You seem to think that when that happens, you have “won” your argument and we are simply not responding because you have stumped us.

I think the moderation team has been very open to constructive criticism. We’ve tweaked the infraction system and our moderation style based on the feedback we’ve received. This demonstrates that we are open to having a constructive dialog. Sometimes we will disagree on the best approach or policy. When that happens, I hope we can respectfully debate the issue and agree to move on after a reasonable amount of time.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Well my point that an infraction system is pointless if the offences are judged differently depending on your record was not addressed. You are operating double jeapordy. It is ridiculous and is not a fair system. It is alreadu set up I believe so your ban will be longer if you cross the second threshold; as such if this system is to be fair then you have to treat identical offences equally. As it stands it is grossly unfair and will be unfair to the next member who falls afoul of it.

As for me being stubborn, can you please play my post and not me as a poster.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
No I didn't find it offensive at all and you don't need to apologise. I don't see calling someone stubborn based on their posts any different to calling them mean, based off a post, though.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Let me clearly address your point about inconsistency regarding your warning vs. Furball’s infraction. In the collective view of the moderation team, Furball deserved an infraction instead of a warning because he was coming off a ban and jumped right into the type of posting that had resulted in his banning to begin with. You obviously feel that he should’ve been given a warning and his ban should’ve had no impact on his subsequent posting. We’ve now debated this issue extensively and we obviously disagree. Therefore, we’re choosing to move on as the infraction will not be reversed. If you insist on bringing this up over and over and we don’t respond, that doesn’t mean we don’t have a justification. We’ve already provided it – you disagree with it, there’s nothing further to debate and hence we consider the matter closed.
That's complete bull****.

There is already appropriate punishment built into the infraction system for repeat offenders. My coming off a ban shouldn't affect the punishment. That's a classic case of playing the poster, something we're constantly told not to do.

Complete horse****. Do whatever you guys want, but there's absolutely no way that you can argue that you're treating posters fairly under this new system.
 

PhoenixFire

International Coach
Regardless of whether you think it's true or not, I find it pretty poor form to start trash talking and swearing at Fusion, someone who's unfailingly polite to anyone, regardless of the person or situation.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
It's not like he was aiming his post at Fusion, it's clearly aimed at the moderation policy in question. And said policy is indeed horse****.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
If you genuinely think all of someone's posts are ****, yet continue to quote them and reply to them almost every time, you have to wonder what exactly you're getting out of coming to CW then.

And it's not half the forum no matter what people like to believe. It's a few trolls and/or repeat offenders. Press ignore or if you don't like doing that, have some self-control and don't bite. Because it seriously derails the thread.

I kept biting with Dhoni Fan for the first two matches and then I pulled the pin, because every match thread would degenerate into people saying "no stop being arrogant" and he reply with "i'm not arrogant, but *insert arrogant comment*
The worst part is to see the baiting replies from some of the folks like Burgey and GIMH, who are generally very good posters, carry on to the next thread, just because that guy is posting there...
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
You well know that you didn't just post 'you mean person', you posted 'Shut up your post is horse****, you are a bona fide mean person', which is quite clearly a different thing. It was a warning, not even an infraction... and completely justified. I don't really know why it needs to be picked over in such detail.
At risk of making us look a bit divided, I'd have had no problem with the post if he didn't put the mean person thing in it. Calling a post crap (or horse ****, or whatever) should be allowed IMO. Posting your opinion of another member shouldn't be accepted if it's negative and likely to provoke though.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I'm not going to quote your email, but definitely didn't make it 'clear'. You added in, as an afterthought, the fact that you didn't think calling it 'horse****' was helpful. Is the fact that it was horse**** worse than if it was just ****? Because to repeat, I have explicitly seen a mod saying 'it is okay to call the post ****', so if that's insulting, well maybe you guys need to talk between yourselves and agree what's acceptable.

Look, here's the thing. i think that warning was horse**** and you will never ever change my mind or justify it to me because it was nonsense. But I didn't bring it up to have an eighteen page discussion about it. I brought it up specifically because of the replies I got from Cribb to the same email, where he told me not to play the poster, even though I specifically referred to Sanz's post and as such played the ****ing post. I'm being honest; I don't believe the mods are on the same page, I don't think your definition of what is playing the post V poster is satisfactory or correct, and I think the whole situation at the moment is a complete shambles.

I find it funny that when I use a bad warning/infraction as an example you lot defend it to death and ignore the wider context of what I'm saying; it's pretty indicative of the way some warnings and infractions are currently being given out.

I also find it hilarious that you have all just stopped responding when I keep bringing up the inconsistency in warning v infraction for Furball and me. That would be because you don't have any justification for it. I am used to that now as it's a familiar pattern in my discussions with the mod team as a whole, both in this thread and via email.
There isn't going to be consistency between warnings and infractions. There's no such thing as a warn-able offence as such; we give out warnings when we feel there are mitigating circumstances. The same thing isn't going to get a warning all the time though or the warning would be pointless; warning one member for the same thing over and over again would accomplish never. We've adopted a lot of warnings so far to give people the benefit of the doubt when we think they just don't quite understand the new system and thought their post would be okay. Furball having been given infractions for similar things already to the point of being banned meant that we were no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. We'll give out less and less warnings over time.

I've actually made it my personal policy as a moderator to not reply to people drawing false comparisons as they go on hell-bent crusaders to point out every little faux-inconsistency they can find, which is why I haven't bothered reply to your crap thus far. When you raised a valid point before in this thread I gave you a reply and you praised it (even though you disagreed). When you're just being contrary for the sake of it then I don't bother.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
What were my mitigating circumstances? I already had a warning and an infraction for the offence you warned me for the Cevno post.

I'm not contrary for the sake of it; I'm calling it as I see it. My offence was identical to Furball's and we both had previous. It's not a crusade or faux-consistency; it's a joke.

Fusion was right when he called me stubborn; I am. But I see that from the mods as well and the refusal to admit that a small decision like this was wrong grates. None of the explanations given have been satisfactory and they've all been different.

I don't expect that you can all be 100 per cent consistent but when small inconsistencies are pointed out it wouldn't be hard to address them but instead you all dig your heels in.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Also Cribb, I'm inferring 'your crap' as meaning multiple posts. Play the single post not the poster blablawahwah :ph34r:
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The worst part is to see the baiting replies from some of the folks like Burgey and GIMH, who are generally very good posters, carry on to the next thread, just because that guy is posting there...
:huh:

I've had very little to do with dhoni_fan outside of match threads
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
What were my mitigating circumstances? I already had a warning and an infraction for the offence you warned me for the Cevno post.

I'm not contrary for the sake of it; I'm calling it as I see it. My offence was identical to Furball's and we both had previous. It's not a crusade or faux-consistency; it's a joke.

Fusion was right when he called me stubborn; I am. But I see that from the mods as well and the refusal to admit that a small decision like this was wrong grates. None of the explanations given have been satisfactory and they've all been different.

I don't expect that you can all be 100 per cent consistent but when small inconsistencies are pointed out it wouldn't be hard to address them but instead you all dig your heels in.
Well, I'm telling you know, if someone comes to us with "I can't get an infraction because so and so did something vaguely similar and didn't get one" we're going to be ignoring it. Every time.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
At risk of making us look a bit divided, I'd have had no problem with the post if he didn't put the mean person thing in it. Calling a post crap (or horse ****, or whatever) should be allowed IMO. Posting your opinion of another member shouldn't be accepted if it's negative and likely to provoke though.
So why am I sitting with 5 extra points?
 
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