*Official* England in Australia (2 T20 & 7 ODIs)

[Prince EWS]

Because he's done nothing since his return to the side to merit his continued inclusion.

Trott meanwhile, in his short ODI career to date has passed 50 in 8 out of the 15 innings he's played. Strike rate is potentially an issue, but he's scored enough runs that he's undroppable just now.

Which makes it between Collingwood and Bell. And Collingwood simply has more credit in the bank, plus some extremely useful bowling which could be vital in the WC.

I know Yardy's had a couple of games where he's seemed "ugly but effective" as such, but since his recall to the side in 2010 he's averaged 21 with the bat and 79 with the ball against top-eight teams, over 13 games. That he's a restricting-specialist has become a bit of a myth too - his economy rate in that time is 5.26. I know Collingwood may be out of form but I'm still sure he'll be able to contribute more than Yardy has done since his recall to the side last year..

 

[vcs]

I know Yardy's had a couple of games where he's seemed "ugly but effective" as such, but since his recall to the side in 2010 he's averaged 21 with the bat and 79 with the ball against top-eight teams, over 13 games. That he's a restricting-specialist has become a bit of a myth too - his economy rate in that time is 5.26. I know Collingwood may be out of form but I'm still sure he'll be able to contribute more than Yardy has been.

True. Agree that it would be harsh to drop Trott at this point.

 

[robinjr]

He really, really wasn't. It was an absolutely filthy long hop.

I think the boy has huge potential, but let's not re-write the game.

but it was more off the edge of Prior's bat wasn't it?It wasn't like Prior nailed it from the middle straight to the fielder.its down to bit of extra bounce Smith extracted off the D'oherty length which Prior was cutting through point consistently.

 

[Furball]

I know Yardy's had a couple of games where he's seemed "ugly but effective" as such, but since his recall to the side in 2010 he's averaged 21 with the bat and 79 with the ball against top-eight teams, over 13 games. That he's a restricting-specialist has become a bit of a myth too - his economy rate in that time is 5.26. I know Collingwood may be out of form but I'm still sure he'll be able to contribute more than Yardy has done since his recall to the side last year..

Yardy is an example of someone who does well in T20 being picked for ODIs because of the incorrect assumption that because they're both limited overs, what works in one will work in the other.

Having said that, I'm not sure what the best alternative is. Our OD bowling stocks are that bad.

 

[Jacknife]

He really, really wasn't. It was an absolutely filthy long hop.

I think the boy has huge potential, but let's not re-write the game.

Exactly and it's not just that, like I said before it's the amount of bad balls every over he balls and tbh I don't think he knows where he's landing them. With all the part time bowlers like Smith, Hussey and Trott they tend to get wickets from batsmen trying to dispatch them into the stands and mostly not playing each ball on it's own merits.

 

[Jacknife]

Yardy is an example of someone who does well in T20 being picked for ODIs because of the incorrect assumption that because they're both limited overs, what works in one will work in the other.

Having said that, I'm not sure what the best alternative is. Our OD bowling stocks are that bad.

For me, I'd go with the one spinner, Swanny and pick your best bowlers Anderson, Broad and Shahzad, along with overs from Colly, Trott and KP if needed. Of course if the pitches really don't suit that, bring Yardy in during he WC. But this summer in England they really need to find that 5th bowler, hopefully Rashid will continue, the improvements he's shown because at the moment he's bowling well in Oz in the big bash.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yardy is an example of someone who does well in T20 being picked for ODIs because of the incorrect assumption that because they're both limited overs, what works in one will work in the other.

Having said that, I'm not sure what the best alternative is. Our OD bowling stocks are that bad.

My point was that playing all three of Trott, Bell and Collingwood is a better alternative. Based on his record since his recall, Yardy's ten overs are going to cost 52 runs and he'll take a wicket once every 15 overs. Collingwood and Trott could quite easily cover that role with the ball or even better it, and if you're going to play Prior as your keeper, you need six proper batsmen.

 

[Athlai]

Does Yardy bowl in powerplays?

 

[Spark]

I barely remember any instances of spinners bowling in the batting PP of late. There are a few but not many.

 

[Prince EWS]

Does Yardy bowl in powerplays?

No. But even if he did you'd definitely expect him to take a wicket more often than once every 15 overs.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I barely remember any instances of spinners bowling in the batting PP of late. There are a few but not many.

Think Clarke def missed a trick by going back to the seamers in our batting PP yesterday.

Would've been a ballsy call, but Dussey and Smith were clearly your best options in the game.

 

[Spark]

Agreed absolutely, but I guess I can see why captains are so reluctant to do it. A lot easier to manipulate shots over fields and away from specific areas with pace off the ball. The benefit of a pace bowler is that for each individual ball the number of potential scoring zones is limited, so it's easier to defend with the very limited defensive resources at your disposal. But for a spinner - set a field, but it's just that bit easier to change your shot to avoid it.

So maybe starting with pace was justified. Giving Bollinger that second over definitely wasn't, though. Big goof, that.

 

[_Ed_]

To precis: Tredwell; why? Tremlett; why not?

My theory is they were going through an alphabetical list of available players and choosing the ones they wanted with a click of the mouse. They narrowly missed their target with one particular mouse click and failed to notice until it was too late.

And now they're too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake, so they're pretending it was the plan all along.




Well, it makes more sense than them thinking Tredwell was the better option, surely.

 

[Furball]

I barely remember any instances of spinners bowling in the batting PP of late. There are a few but not many.

Harbhajan did it quite well in South Africa.

edit: admittedly that was the bowling powerplay, but IIRC the same fielding restrictions apply.

 

[Howe_zat]

Fwiw Zimbabwe and Bangladesh have been typically playing 3-4 spinners every game, so I suspect there is a fair bit of spinners in powerplays for them.

I belive Zimbabwe opened the bowling with Price and Utseya recently.

Edit: This is the match I was thinking of. NZ did the same thing against India in December.

A full list of spinners opening the bowling in ODIs since 2000 is surprisingly extensive. Surprising names include Chris Gayle, Dilshan and Sehwag.

 

[superkingdave]

Man this series seems to drag on even longer than a 7 match series should do. Whats with playing 2 games a week? Surely they could have played them a bit closer together, I mean I know there is plenty of travel but apart from Perth the flights aren't that long and Perth is the last one anyway.

 

[Spark]

Harbhajan did it quite well in South Africa.

edit: admittedly that was the bowling powerplay, but IIRC the same fielding restrictions apply.

I've seen it a fair bit in bowling PP, but not the batting.

 

[Jayzamann]

And now they're too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake, so they're pretending it was the plan all along.

Pretty much the same story for the Aus selectors, only in their case the wheels fall off the cart as it is far ahead of the horse, and they still keep their poker faces on. (referring to the Ashes, btw - the selections for the LO games have been a little bit more inspired)

 

[tooextracool]

For me, I'd go with the one spinner, Swanny and pick your best bowlers Anderson, Broad and Shahzad, along with overs from Colly, Trott and KP if needed. Of course if the pitches really don't suit that, bring Yardy in during he WC. But this summer in England they really need to find that 5th bowler, hopefully Rashid will continue, the improvements he's shown because at the moment he's bowling well in Oz in the big bash.

Both Rashid and Steve Smith should be put on sabbatical when it comes to bowling in limited over cricket. It is going to hinder their development in the long term IMO, especially in test cricket, because its going to make them bowl flatter and quicker when they should instead be willing to toss it up and use drift and flight.

FTR, I actually think young Smith has more potential with the ball than with the bat. Well I suppose that might not mean much, but I do like the way he bowls, its really a question of him getting more bowling under his belt.

 

[pup11]

Both Rashid and Steve Smith should be put on sabbatical when it comes to bowling in limited over cricket. It is going to hinder their development in the long term IMO, especially in test cricket, because its going to make them bowl flatter and quicker when they should instead be willing to toss it up and use drift and flight.

FTR, I actually think young Smith has more potential with the ball than with the bat. Well I suppose that might not mean much, but I do like the way he bowls, its really a question of him getting more bowling under his belt.

First thing first, I really don't buy into this whole spinners become ****e by just by playing limited overs cricket,there is nothing to suggest that you need to bowl flat in limited overs cricket to be successful as a spin bowler. In fact both Rashid (in the Big Bash) and Smith have bowled really well by mixing up their lenths and pace.

The performance of Smith in the recent ODI games should also help the Aus think tank realise that at this point of Smith's career compared to his batting, his bowling in going to be more handy at the international level, so we need to stop treating him as a part-time bowler.