Is Steyn as deadly as Lillee?

[MrIncredible]

Maybe but he surely more than earned their admiration

 

[slog sweep]

I don't know why so many people here have an aversion to Lillee. By that I mean, people here seem to think he's a great by reputation more than talent, which stands as one of the most ridiculous things I've heard here.

If you ask the cricketers who played with and against him in his day, about 90% of them will say he was the best fast bowler they ever saw - guys like Botham and Dickie Bird. Benaud thinks he's the best. Bradman said he was the best he ever saw etc in terms of fast bowling. He was Hadlee's hero. Hadlee considered him #1 too.

In fact all I remember contrary to that is Jeff Thompson saying Malcolm Marshall was the best fast bowler.

Here's a few myths about Dennis Lillee.

* He got wickets largely because of Jeff Thompson. NOT TRUE. It's like the 'Warne gets wickets because of McGrath' argument (of course nobody says McGrath gets wickets because of Warne). Jeff Thompson had a brief peak in the mid 70s before injuries ruined him. Lillee got most of his wickets without a lot of help from the other end.

* Lillee is sometimes considered greater than he was because of his macho aggression. NOT TRUE. In fact, Lillee had more of a reputation for being a complete, controlled bowled once he came back from injury. He introduced cutters, slower balls, and had a renowned control of seam and swing.

It's weird how these little myths pop up around CW about players. Thus I see players like Imran Kahn (one of the greats no doubt) being rated way higher than say Hadlee or Botham, when in their day they were considered about equal. Most say Kahn was the best of the allrounders, but certainly not by much.

Do people around here know Lillee bowled more overs per match than Richard Hadlee did? Yet Hadlee gets credited for single-handedly carrying New Zealand's bowling etc. But that's just how dependent Australia were on Lillee. Ian Chappell used to get criticized heavily for over-bowling Lillee.

And look at the stuff Lillee did on bad wickets like the MCG. He gets knocked for not performing against Pakistan or whatever, but he had a huge reputation for playing better on bad wickets than he did good.

Steyn... he's the best bowler in the world right now. But people are comparing him immediately to the man most cricket experts consider the best fast bowler ever? A bit early I think.

Lillee was exceptional, but 90% is a serious exaggeration. He certainly has his fair share of admirers, but there are plenty of cricket legends who rate others ahead of him.

Sunil Gavaskar rated Andy Roberts as the best bowler that he faced, and Barry Richards also rated him incredibly highly. A host of players, including David Gower, Graham Gooch and Allan Border, all rate Malcolm Marshall as the best bowler they faced. Others such as Ray Illingworth, Neil Harvey and Mike Procter, consider Michael Holding to be the gold standard of modern fast bowlers. I remember a recent interview with Imran Khan, and he rated Marshall, Lillee and Holding as the three best fast bowlers of his time, but felt that Holding was the best of the lot.

I agree with you, about the all-rounders though. The gap between Imran and the others, is minimal. Their actual ability to influence the outcome of a game was fairly similar, and you could make an argument for any of them, based on personal preference.

 

[Burgey]

Lillee was exceptional, but 90% is a serious exaggeration. He certainly has his fair share of admirers, but there are plenty of cricket legends who rate others ahead of him.

Sunil Gavaskar rated Andy Roberts as the best bowler that he faced, and Barry Richards also rated him incredibly highly. A host of players, including David Gower, Graham Gooch and Allan Border, all rate Malcolm Marshall as the best bowler they faced. Others such as Ray Illingworth, Neil Harvey and Mike Procter, consider Michael Holding to be the gold standard of modern fast bowlers. I remember a recent interview with Imran Khan, and he rated Marshall, Lillee and Holding as the three best fast bowlers of his time, but felt that Holding was the best of the lot.

I agree with you, about the all-rounders though. The gap between Imran and the others, is minimal. Their actual ability to influence the outcome of a game was fairly similar, and you could make an argument for any of them, based on personal preference.

Lol.. Did Sunny score many runs in matches Lillee played? I suspect his memories of DK are less than fun ones.

 

[MrIncredible]

Thats true but FWIW, Sunny only ever face Lillee in Australia. Would have been interesting to see the

outcome had Sunny faced Lillee in India

 

[centurymaker]

Lol.. Did Sunny score many runs in matches Lillee played? I suspect his memories of DK are less than fun ones.

He only faced lillee in 1 series (3 tests)

 

[JBMAC]

Lillee vs Steyn...Steyn lacks the "killer" instinct..Lillee had a thinking cricket brain..Lillee was a winner at all costs...forget the stats, after playing and watching cricket for four decades Lillee was the bowler I would have in my side....Lillee wins hands down

 

[Cruxdude]

Lillee vs Steyn...Steyn lacks the "killer" instinct..Lillee had a thinking cricket brain..Lillee was a winner at all costs...forget the stats, after playing and watching cricket for four decades Lillee was the bowler I would have in my side....Lillee wins hands down

With all due respect sir, I do not agree with saying that Steyn lacks the killer instinct. I haven't seen much of Lilee so cannot compare, but from the cricket I have seen rarely have I seen a bowler waste so few deliveries. Almost every delivery of his requires the batsmen to play at him. One of the most aggressive bowler I have seen.

 

[smash84]

I don't know about recently but in his playing days Sunny regarded Imran Khan as the best fast bowler that he faced. Imran got him 11 times (the second highest by any bowler. Derek Underwood got the wood under Sunny 12 times)

 

[robelinda]

With all due respect sir, I do not agree with saying that Steyn lacks the killer instinct. I haven't seen much of Lilee so cannot compare, but from the cricket I have seen rarely have I seen a bowler waste so few deliveries. Almost every delivery of his requires the batsmen to play at him. One of the most aggressive bowler I have seen.

Well he has seen both and says otherwise, you havent so you have no basis at all for your opinion. I completely agree that Steyn lacks the killer instinct, compared to Lillee and Marshall and Ambrose. Those guys were incredible.

 

[vcs]

Well he has seen both and says otherwise, you havent so you have no basis at all for your opinion. I completely agree that Steyn lacks the killer instinct, compared to Lillee and Marshall and Ambrose. Those guys were incredible.

Why do you think that? His SR is the highest for anyone with over 200 wickets, and he has a pretty balanced record.

 

[centurymaker]

Why do you think that? His SR is the highest for anyone with over 200 wickets, and he has a pretty balanced record.

Probably because he doesn't actually try to kill the batsman unlike the greats in the past....

 

[robelinda]

Why do you think that? His SR is the highest for anyone with over 200 wickets, and he has a pretty balanced record.

I think that because ive watched enough of both of them bowl, and can form my own opinion with resorting to being a 'stats warrior'. I dont care about stats. They mean close to nothing. Can be completely misleading and can be interpreted however one seems fit to suit their agenda.

 

[archie mac]

Have you heard about the famous Centenary Test where Lillee took a tenfer off a pitch where the ball wasn't bouncing above waist height. YouTube - Dennis Lillee - ESPN Legends Of Cricket No. 6 (Part 3)

Ha ha, I daresay Archie probably HAS heard about that match.

Would love to say I was there, alas had to watch it on the tele

Alan Mac said he would never vote on the M/O/M again until the match was finished, after he voted for Der. Ran. during the lunch break on day 5.

Skull said Lillee would not hear of the Poms winning and carried the Aussies over the line with a great spell

 

[Burgey]

He only faced lillee in 1 series (3 tests)

I think he was part of the World XI team in the early 70s too.

Certainly Lillee doesn't rate him that highly.

 

[Cruxdude]

Well he has seen both and says otherwise, you havent so you have no basis at all for your opinion. I completely agree that Steyn lacks the killer instinct, compared to Lillee and Marshall and Ambrose. Those guys were incredible.

You don't need to see Lillee to say whether Steyn lacks killer instinct.

 

[robelinda]

You don't need to see Lillee to say whether Steyn lacks killer instinct.

And you dont know what killer instinct is if you havent seen Lillee.

We can go on forever.

 

[smash84]

And you dont know what killer instinct is if you havent seen Lillee.

We can go on forever.

 

[Cruxdude]

And you dont know what killer instinct is if you havent seen Lillee.

We can go on forever.

Feel sorry for the poor bowlers before Lillee. Maybe that is the reason Bradman averages so much.

 

[robelinda]

I wouldnt say Lillee has the most killer instinct of fast bowlers ive seen, and i'm sure there's guys from before his era that were awesome but not many of us have seen them.

 

[ankitj]

Not sure about that, do cricketers have to be perfect to be unequivocally admired? Who gets to decide what's the correct amount of admiration someone should get?

Wrong choice of words from me I guess. What I meant was being rated as the greatest ever fast bowler, so much so that ESPN legends of cricket ranked him above Imaran and Hadlee who were as good (if not better) bowlers and could bat too.