Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes

[wpdavid]

There's a balance that needs to be struck tho. Statis can be just as crippling as a selectorial game of pass-the-parcel.

I'll probably use the example again but England cutting Finn despite him being our leading wicket taker was a bravura piece of bold selection. It would've been so easy to back the status quo, but it was absolutely the right decision.

Clarke and especially Ponting have been formula one players so both have deserved a little forbearance, but they seem to be running on fumes just now. I'd personally drop Clarke and strip Ponting of the captaincy to see if a return to the ranks might re-energise his batting. If it doesn't then maybe his decline is terminal.

Other English examples from recent vintage are the dropping of Strauss & Bell to allow them to get their acts together, or to remove complacency, depending on your view of the matter. Those decisions worked, but it must have helped that they weren't part of the cast-of-thousand approach that we saw in the late 1980's & 1990's. The selectors were wise enough not to take the view that they should be at the back of the queue until all other possibilities had been exhausted.

iirc Aus's approach in the second half of the 1980's worked because (1) there was a batch of genuinely talented players who were worth persevering with and (2) Border was established but around for long enough to see the side through its transition period. Perhaps the strategy will be decided for the selectors by however many of Ponting, Hussey & Katich decide to hang up their boots in the near future. Whilst there probably isn't much mileage in keeping all of the 35-and-overs, they equally probably wouldn't want to lose all of them just yet.

 

[honestbharani]

I have been saying this since 2007 to be perfectly honest. I predicted Ponting to have no hope of coming close to Sachin's test runs record, and on top of that, that Kallis would overtake Ponting and be a real threat to Sachin.

The main reason was I believed Sachin and Kallis had the techniques behind them to handle old age, whereas Ponting's reflexes and eyes waning would have a bigger impact on his game.

However even though what I predicted ended up coming true, there are flaws in my argument. Why is Dravid then suffering, since his technique has always been very good? He's not an eye player like Ponting. The other flaw in my argument is why the hell did Lara get better the older he got? He most definitely was a player who relied on his reflexes, especially compared to Dravid.

Had Lara waned as he got older, and Dravid had a similar path to Kallis, my theory would be perfect. But Dravid and Lara make no sense

SJS once posted here that Lara had a more classical "technique" than Sachin..




Although that was perhaps in the context of their grips when stroking/hitting the ball..

 

[Uppercut]

Fair point. Obviously it's different for everyone, but some chaps are never going to be from the identikit pro template. Warney chased fanny til all hours and refuelled on chips n cheese and pizzas and he went ok.

It might seem unfair on the less talented blokes who do knuckle down, but that's life. It's not fair Ben Cousins still looks cut and chisled in his 30s after a Class A consumption that would embarrass Amy Winehouse, but genius writes it own rules as the cliche has it.

If he can catch and run between the wickets I'd happily forgive him any other faults- think it's best in the long run not to pick players who can't do those things right when there's other options out there though. Have no idea about his catching but I've heard he's always getting involved in run-outs.

I can at least see their logic here- I've ranted about it before but the decision to completely ditch Brad Hodge for the sin of knowing as well as everyone else that his non-selection was a complete disgrace was, err, a complete disgrace.

 

[Bun]

The next goal really should be the test series against SL, India and SA. No point losing all of them badly by playing a pack of young blokes in the (albeit somewhat informed) hope that they'll be test class in two year's time.

Ha yes. I don't understand setting the next Ashes as a goal. I think England's success has a lot to do with Flower's thinking, who emphasise that the Ashes was an important but ultimately just another series in their goal to becoming World no.1.

 

[howardj]

Last season the problem with the team was that the middle order wasn't making any runs. .
The problem this season is the middle order isn't making any runs

Why does everyone want to retain the players who are the cause of the problem.

Ponting's time is up - an average of 16 for the series as captain
Katich deserves to hold his place but his age is against him
Hussey's plaace is again borderline after 4 consecutive failures in the last two tests.
Clarke should be out of the team on his current form.
Smith has had a turn and he may offer something in the future, but we need to try someone else.

On form alone you can see what trouble we are in

As Peter English has pointed out everyone is in denial .
The problem is obvious

The solution is to start bringing new players into the team and saying goodbye to yesterdays heroes, former champions or not .

The sooner the process is started the better for rveryone.

I totally agree. IMO it's madness to take four 34+ year olds to SL in August - Haddin, Ponting, Katich and Hussey. Otherwise, in two years time you're back to rebuilding/transitions....AGAIN!!!!

I think though you do need to stagger their departures with due regard to who is immediately replaceable. On that score, I think Paine and Khawaja are immediately ready to step in for Haddin and Katich. I really don't think the gap between those guys is all that big.

Khawaja
Watson
Clarke
Hussey
Ponting
Smith
Paine
Hauritz
Harris
Bollinger
Pattinson

Siddle, Copeland, O'Keefe, Ferguson to make up the touring party.

People who laugh at that team, I look forward to being on here in 2013 when you're trying to replace Haddin, Ponting, Hussey and Katich all at the same time. The departures of these guys need to be staggered in the same way that Langer's and Hayden's were.

 

[Woodster]

Would be very harsh to replace Haddin after this Ashes series, he's been one of the few that have enhanced their reputation. His keeping might not be top drawer. but reckon his batting makes up for it.

 

[Burgey]

I have been saying this since 2007 to be perfectly honest. I predicted Ponting to have no hope of coming close to Sachin's test runs record, and on top of that, that Kallis would overtake Ponting and be a real threat to Sachin.

The main reason was I believed Sachin and Kallis had the techniques behind them to handle old age, whereas Ponting's reflexes and eyes waning would have a bigger impact on his game.

However even though what I predicted ended up coming true, there are flaws in my argument. Why is Dravid then suffering, since his technique has always been very good? He's not an eye player like Ponting. The other flaw in my argument is why the hell did Lara get better the older he got? He most definitely was a player who relied on his reflexes, especially compared to Dravid.

Had Lara waned as he got older, and Dravid had a similar path to Kallis, my theory would be perfect. But Dravid and Lara make no sense

11,000 test runs with a poor technique?

I think the answer is just that everyone is different. Some age better, some do trough slumps earlier then come out of them to excel once more.

 

[howardj]

Haddin's card is marked.

I'd be surprised if Paine does not tour Sri Lanka.

He's been annointed mate - vc of the T20 team, and captain of the PM's XI.

It has emerged that a key component of Australia's planning is slotting Tim Paine into the Australian XI at the expense of keeper Brad Haddin.

 

[howardj]

Hilditch Faces Axe

 

[Woodster]

Haddin's card is marked.

I'd be surprised if Paine does not tour Sri Lanka.

He's been annointed mate - vc of the T20 team, and captain of the PM's XI.

It has emerged that a key component of Australia's planning is slotting Tim Paine into the Australian XI at the expense of keeper Brad Haddin.

Maybe that's the way they'll go, I'm not sure it would make sense though. He's one of the few wickets we generally had to work to pretty hard to take, but I appreciate it's not all about the recent series.

I'm a fan of Haddin, maybe his keeping will be under the microscope in Sri Lanka on more trying wickets to keep on.

 

[Midwinter]

It has emerged that a key component of Australia's planning is slotting Tim Paine into the Australian XI at the expense of keeper Brad Haddin.

Perhaps this is root of the problem ,the selectors have had a plan for who would be in the team for this and every series. It works well when you are winning.

Listened to Chappell say after the 3rd test that Ponting will be captain for the next 2 years , Hughes would play the rest of the series etc.
They followed the plan. Is this is why Hilditch says the selectors did a good job ie they followed their plan

If players aren't/can't make runs or take wickets where is the plan B, or plan C.
This series showed that there wasn't any.
The only changes made to the batting outside of injury was Smith for North.

There is a saying that as soon as the battle starts all plans need to be changed.

 

[Prince EWS]

Haha, if Haddin really does get dropped for Paine it will actually be gun IMO, because one of the best two keeper/batsmen in the world will actually play for a team I care about - New South Wales. It will be a hilariously bad decision though; one genuinely worse than picking Cameron White as a specialist bowler ahead of Stuart Clark even when Krejza was also playing. Can't recall a worse call in my lifetime, actually.

The logic, if you could call it that, is so ridiculous. "Sorry Brad, but even though you actually played really well this series just gone, everyone else played like dicks. As such, we're going to opt for a youth policy and publicly admit we aren't picking our best team anymore so we don't look as bad when we inevitably lose. You're frankly too good for this side; thanks anyway though."

 

[robelinda]

No chance Haddin will be dropped from tests, they are just doing what they say IMO, giving Paine an opportunity as he has been a great hitter in the 20 20 stuff. Haddin perfectly safe in tests and ODI's, 100%. People are reading way too much into the Paine selection.

 

[howardj]

There are broader considerations. It's about the gap between players (ability-wise), their relative ages, the need to regenerate a side with a number of 34+ year olds, and the need to inject future leaders. On the first score, I just don't think the gap between Haddin and Paine is anywhere near enough to counter the other factors.

All a matter of opinion though. We're all happily united by having Australia's cricketing interest's close to our bossoms. lol

 

[GotSpin]

Hilditch Faces Axe

Yay. First piece of decent news to come from this

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yay. First piece of decent news to come from this

Very unimpressive individual, it must be said. His belief that he & his cohorts have done "a good job" shows how faulty his judgement actually is.

 

[howardj]

Yep, it's not the losses, it's the scale of the losses.

And it's not just the scale of the losses, but the denial. and denial.

 

[Ikki]

Very unimpressive individual, it must be said. His belief that he & his cohorts have done "a good job" shows how faulty his judgement actually is.

Sounds like Roy Hodgson.

 

[GotSpin]

Very unimpressive individual, it must be said. His belief that he & his cohorts have done "a good job" shows how faulty his judgement actually is.

Yeah it's quite amazing to see a coach defend himself after his teams shocking performances

 

[Spikey]

this paine stuff



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best joke i've read this year