Australia - the aftermath of the Ashes

[stephen]

So now that Australia has officially not regained the Ashes, we have to take a long hard look at our side and envision where it will be in four years time. Let's look at the current players:

Watson
Hughes
Ponting (c)
Clarke
Hussey
Smith
Haddin +
Johnson
Siddle
Hilfenhaus
Harriswhenfit

I think that these openers are good enough to stay there. Certainly Watto has been scoring a lot of runs and Hughes is the best long term opening option. I would be against a return of Katich (unless he was fit for Sydney). If Katich was to come back for Sydney I would let him know that it is time for him to announce his retirement. If Maddison keeps up his domestic form he could be brought in and Watto pushed down to either three or four. I wouldn't like Watto any lower than four though.

I think that unless Ponting tons up in the next test and looks like he is really set to score runs heavily for the next four years he needs to be tapped on the shoulder. Let's blood Khawaja as soon as possible at number 3 and give him a good run there to see how he handles it. Doing this we need to pick a new captain. Haddin or Clarke seem to be the best choices at this stage.

Clarke appears to be batting too high at #4, I would like to see him move down one place to #5. I also would want him to bat there long term as well, particularly if he is given the captaincy.

Hussey could be given a couple more years (until his current run of form finishes), but I'd like to see him bat at #4. It's not like he's coming in late in the innings at the moment anyway. When his current form deserts him I think that it's time to pick someone else for his position. Hopefully there will be a standout batsman by then in domestic cricket.

I would like to see Haddin and Smith change positions or for Smith to be dropped. The question is for whom? Nobody has been sticking their hand up in domestic cricket as being an adequate replacement, with the possibly exception of Lynn. Lynn I feel may have the ability to step up his game and play in the Australian side. For the moment though I'd probably stick with Smith. Lynn could also be brought in for Hussey when his form dies.

The bowling attack is popgun at the moment, with the exception of Johnson (when he's having a good day). As much as it pains me, we have to keep playing Johnson because he is a genuine match winner. With Watson and Smith in the side we have more than adequate cover for him on his bad days. Harris is never going to make it to the next Ashes series and we'll be lucky to see him play again. I really think he should be told to stick to the shorter formats. Hilfenhaus unfortunately doesn't appear good enough for test match cricket, which is a real shame. Siddle looks like he has potential and on his day can run through sides, so I would like to see him stick around.

So with a fast bowling attack of Siddle and Johnson we need to look at who to bring in. Copeland and Cameron appear both to be very good choices from NSW, though Cameron is already 29 and therefore is not a long term prospect. No other names really spring to mind from the other states at the moment. The problem is that all of the fast bowlers this season appear to be doing well so it is difficult to tell them apart.

Our best spinner is Hauritz. Our second best spinner is O'Keefe. Both are around the same age and I would like to see both in contention for the spinners' spot. Hauritz should be picked first though. Beer has not spent enough time in the domestic competition yet and doesn't have any form on the board to speak of. He's also not Warnie.

So ideally I would like to see, over the next few years a side that somewhat resembles this (ages will be how old they are in four years time):

Hughes (26)
Watson (33) / Maddison (22)
Khawaja (27)
Lynn (24)
Clarke (33) (c)
Haddin (36) / Paine (29) +
Smith (25)
Johnson (32)
Hauritz (32)
Siddle (29)
Copeland (28)

O'Keefe (29) and White (31) all teetering around the edges if any of these do not appear to be good enough.

Thoughts?

 

[robelinda]

Johnson for me is a big part of the problem, as well as the batting. He literally is way off the mark for too many consecutive tests, and we generally get thrashed as a result. His best is great, but it shows itself once a year, and is the result of pure FLUKE. If a batsman scored a ton once a year he would be shown the door.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Johnson for me is a big part of the problem, as well as the batting. He literally is way off the mark for too many consecutive tests, and we generally get thrashed as a result. His best is great, but it shows itself once a year, and is the result of pure FLUKE. If a batsman scored a ton once a year he would be shown the door.

Yeah, I agree with this. North got crucified regularly for being good every 5-6 tests...Johnson is basically the same package as a bowler at the moment.

If we had 2-3 other quicks who were more consistent and could take wickets then he'd have his place as a shock weapon. Doesn't work so well when he's relied on to take a bulk of the wickets though.

I only say this on the presumption that with better bowlers around him he'd actually gain confidence and bowl better as a result. If that didn't happen, then he'd still be teetering on the brink.

 

[Ruckus]

Let's discuss though what we think will actually happen in the next year or so. Given Greg Chappell's recent comments on Ponting needing to remain captain, I can't see him retiring any time soon (unless it's his own choice - however, even in the post match interview he said he still thinks he can offer a lot to the team). So the chances are Ponting will remain captain for at least another year.

Katich will probably return to the team in place of Hughes, and will stay there for quite some while before retiring I think.

What will happen with the spinner is hard to predict. Beer might debut at Sydney, but unless he puts up an exceptional performance I doubt he will be retained for long. Given Smith is not yet suited to no. 6, the selectors might opt to try him out as a genuine allrounder at no. 7 or 8 for a while or alternatively drop him and bring back Hauritz. I can see Hauritz coming back into the equation when enough time has passed so the selectors don't have to swallow their pride anymore. If any of that happens, Khawaja will probably debut at no. 6 sometime.

I can't see Johnson being dropped any time soon, nor Siddle. Hilfenhaus is walking a fine line at the moment, but I'm not sure whether he will be dropped either because their seems to be a bit of favouritism to him shown by Ponting. If he is dropped, and Harris is replaced, I would put my money on Bollinger, Starc, George, Hazlewood (if fit), McKay and Cameron being the likely candidates. Don't think Copeland is in the selectors sights yet.

 

[robelinda]

Hauritz must be given a better run, I dont care if he cant bowl out India, no spinner can. Probably a better all rounder than Smith anyway. Hilfy tried hard, but virtually nothing to show for it at all. No-one could say Copeland doesnt have the stats to get a spot, at the SCG of all places too. Gosh, the team could be all NSW bar Johnson and Siddle!

 

[Spark]

Would be pretty hilarious if they won then.

 

[Flem274*]

Australia should avoid a long term youth policy building for 2012 or 2014 or whenevr. That's how you get stuck in ruts, with kids who aren't used to winning.

Australia need to win a test as soon as possible against a top eight side. It doesn't matter who it's against, for now the important thing is to win a game. Then win another. And another, and so on. To do this, pick the best players in the country regardless of age.

 

[Xuhaib]

lol at Johnson bashing he's the only reason along with Hussey and harris that Ashes score line does not look like a rout if a fast bowler can average 30 for you in the modern game you take him in with eyes closed.

 

[NUFAN]

Stephen I think you are jumping the gun quite massively with Chris Lynn. I'm excited by him don't get me wrong, but I think it's far too early at this stage.

I also don't agree that Cameron at 29 is too old to debut. We have another thread with Tremlett being the next all time great and he's already 29!

 

[vic_orthdox]

Look, haven't read through it all. But I wanted to make a point, and it belongs somewhat in a talk about the "aftermath".

I've previously defended Tim Nielsen, and think that he's a bang-up bloke. He may still be the guy to take Australia forward. But to give him a three year contract extension before the Ashes is downright deplorable from Cricket Australia.

 

[TumTum]

As somebody was saying in the commentary (i think warney or chappelli), we should persist with the youngsters we have and build for the future.

Which means enough with selecting 30 year old men for the bowling spots. We need to feed in Hazlewood, Pattison, Starc, George etc

 

[stephen]

Stephen I think you are jumping the gun quite massively with Chris Lynn. I'm excited by him don't get me wrong, but I think it's far too early at this stage.

I also don't agree that Cameron at 29 is too old to debut. We have another thread with Tremlett being the next all time great and he's already 29!

I agree that Cameron isn't too old to debut. But I don't think that we can realistically expect more than 4-5 years out of him. Which means that if the choice is between him and someone five years younger, you pick the younger bloke.

 

[NUFAN]

As somebody was saying in the commentary (i think warney or chappelli), we should persist with the youngsters we have and build for the future.

Which means enough with selecting 30 year old men for the bowling spots. We need to feed in Hazlewood, Pattison, Starc, George etc

When do you suggest we 'feed' these players in? You know the first 3 names you've listed have combined for 0 wickets this whole Shield season so far..

 

[TumTum]

When do you suggest we 'feed' these players in? You know the first 3 names you've listed have combined for 0 wickets this whole Shield season so far..

As soon as they are available imo, irrespective of their domestic performances. About time we let some bowlers develop in the biggest stage for once, like erm almost every other country is doing atm (Anderson, Broad, Finn, Roach, Ishant, Morkel etc etc)

 

[NUFAN]

I agree that Cameron isn't too old to debut. But I don't think that we can realistically expect more than 4-5 years out of him. Which means that if the choice is between him and someone five years younger, you pick the younger bloke.

I don't really subscribe to that theory for cricketers under 30 especially if you already have Siddle who is younger. 4 or 5 years means potentially 50 Tests, nothing wrong with that (although in Cameron's case it's unlikely he can stay fit for so long and needs to actually make the NSW team consistently).

 

[Howsie]

As soon as they are available imo, irrespective of their domestic performances. About time we let some bowlers develop in the biggest stage for once, like erm almost every other country is doing atm (Anderson, Broad, Finn, Roach, Ishant, Morkel etc etc)

I guarantee every country that is doing it would much rather not be.

 

[NUFAN]

As soon as they are available imo, irrespective of their domestic performances. About time we let some bowlers develop in the biggest stage for once, like erm almost every other country is doing atm (Anderson, Broad, Finn, Roach, Ishant, Morkel etc etc)

Crazy talk. You don't care about domestic performances at all? So why exactly are Patterson, Hazlewood and Starc the chosen 3?

Do you suggest we play all 3 of them next Test if available? What is your ideal XI for our next match after the upcoming SCG test?

 

[TumTum]

Crazy talk. You don't care about domestic performances at all? So why exactly are Patterson, Hazlewood and Starc the chosen 3?

Do you suggest we play all 3 of them next Test if available? What is your ideal XI for our next match after the upcoming SCG test?

They have potential, which is something you can't read from just performance.

No I wouldn't, however now that Harris is out, I wouldn't mind inserting one of them instead of Bollinger.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I've never seen Copeland bowl, but I have seen Cameron and if the former's good enough to keep the latter out of the NSW team he must have something because I was impressed with Cameron.

 

[Redbacks]

The ole crystal ball:

Watson
???
Khawaja
Clarke
???
???
Haddin
Johnson
???
???
???

Not sure any other position is set. Whilst Khawaja looks the goods, still has to dance with the big boys. Johnson in until we can find 3 good bowlers to nullify his need to produce an impact spell to counter the weak penetration of our attack.