*Official* India in South Africa

[Contra]

It may not seem much in the larger scheme of things,but the quickfire 25 in the first innings and the 32 in the second innings Sehwag got were really really crucial for India.

Got them of to decent starts. Threw it away in the second innings but atleast put of the early innings pressure in both.

Yeah that's the weird part isn't it. We actually managed to survive the initial new ball overs. As soon as we reached 40/0 then all of a sudden we lost wickets.

I can't help but think that the ball change after the first 5-6 overs helped them a bit. It was like facing 2 spells with 2 new balls. Eh w/e

MS and Bhajji will be crucial tom. A brisk 25 odd from Bhajji can be really useful and MS has played pretty well this tour.

 

[Cevno]

Well, so do I, except I love the pitches on the subcontinent equally (by and large), think they get a lot of unfair criticism and generalizations, when they mostly produce awesome Test cricket.

True.

Generally they are good pitches.
But due to one or two odd roads ,they get undue criticism. (It's not as if the centurion pitch in this series ,was not very flat except the first day which made it a bit unfair.)

Specially love the ultra dustbowls where the ball starts spinning day 1/day 2.

 

[Cevno]

Yeah that's the weird part isn't it. We actually managed to survive the initial new ball overs. As soon as we reached 40/0 then all of a sudden we lost wickets.

I can't help but think that the ball change after the first 5-6 overs helped them a bit. It was like facing 2 spells with 2 new balls. Eh w/e

MS and Bhajji will be crucial tom. A brisk 25 odd from Bhajji can be really useful and MS has played pretty well this tour.

I think the second opener being dodgy this match hasn't helped too.
I think Gambhir would have done better carrying the momentum through a bit longer after Sehwag got out.


But the thing that has stood out for me is despite almost throwing his wicket away both innings,perhaps in the first and specially the second ,Sehwag has looked good and comfortable on this wicket and not in all kinds of trouble like everyone expected him to be.

 

[Jono]

Jus thinking had this been an Indian pitch, what the responses would've been

Hahaha so true. Such a good post.

The knives would be out. People would be crying about Indian doctored wickets.

 

[Cevno]

These are English kind of conditions.

If they stay consistent throughout ,i don't think India should mind it too much,tbh.

This is the type of pitch due to which i wanted Praveen Kumar to be picked for this tour.

I wonder how much could he swing it in these conditions or even Irfan Pathan.

Though i think The bowlers who are playing this match would be effective here too. Hopefully the sun does not come out in the next few days.

We were in almost a similar situation after day 1 ,when Ganguly made his superb gritty fifty and had a crucial stand with VRV singh on day 2.

Then Sreesanth produced a dream spell.

Compared to that match Zaheer is a better bowler now and Ishant better than VRV.[/QUOTE]

True.

The sixth wicket makes it look much worse.

Though i think 250 would be a good score on this track.
Probably need one of these to get a 50 to get there though.

This Match reminds me of this match -

This Match reminds me of this match -


1st Test: South Africa v India at Johannesburg, Dec 15-18, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

We were in almost a similar situation after day 1 ,when Ganguly made his superb gritty fifty and had a crucial stand with VRV singh on day 2.

Then Sreesanth produced a dream spell.

Compared to that match Zaheer is a better bowler now and Ishant better than VRV.

Going pretty similar to that match at the moment. Though the scores are more even than that one.

 

[Uppercut]

I think the optimism lies in the fact that we are 'effectively' 166/4 in the third innings of a very low scoring game. We can't overlook that. Every who notes that SA are favourites are anticipating an Indian collapse. I have supreme faith in one of Laxman, Pujara, Dhoni, Harbhajan and even Zaheer to score the 60 or 70 that will take us toward a 300 lead. People assume that India got lucky in bowling SA out cheaply, but in fact, you could look at it and say that India did this with half of their attack bowling to a fraction of their potential.

I wouldn't say I expect a "collapse". It's just that as good as Laxman, Pujara and Dhoni are, it's fairly unlikely that Morkel and Steyn will get through to drinks tomorrow morning without doing some damage, given conditions.

I would say India are ahead in the game but Tendulkar, Sehwag and Dravid are all now effectively out of the match, whereas every one of South Africa's star players still has the opportunity to do something decisive. That kinda makes me think South Africa will have the better of the upcoming sessions, and as such would have them as extremely slight favourites.

 

[Cevno]

Agreed so much. Some of our grounds should just seriously be banned. Ahemdabad needs to go and I was hoping Hydrabad doesn't turn out to be a flat track (seeing as how it's always flat for ODI matches) but unfortunately it did. I hope we never play test cricket there

Chennai / Mumbai / Eden / Nagpur / Mohali / Bangalore are all good grounds. Lets just stick to them.

Delhi?

That Chennai pitch also varies from match to match and goes from flat to perfect to a very tough batting wicket depending on it's mood.


Bangalore is worst of this lot too ,i feel. Extremely boring test cricket even when it produces a result.
Slow low bounce makes it tough to score runs and also tough to take wickets,resulting in large sessions of nothing happening.

 

[Cevno]

If one more wicket falls, I swear I'll run down the street with my shirt off!

So did you?

 

[Cevno]

Unfortunately pretty much all those wickets have become slow-low pancakes. Among that list the last match of the SA series in Mumbai (at the Brabourne stadium not Wankhede) was on a wicket that was of the 90's-'02 variety. But can't remember any recent matches at the other grounds which weren't slow+low turners.

Last to Last series against South Africa.

3rd Test: India v South Africa at Kanpur, Apr 11-13, 2008 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

This match at Kanpur.

But the bloody ICC match referee reported it as a "unsafe pitch" .

ICC is such a "****"

 

[Cevno]

Steyn = ?
Morkel = Zaheer
---daylight---
Kallis = Harbhajan
Ishant = Harris
Tsotsobe = Sreesanth


I'd say the lineups are about even, except for the massive Steyn factor.

This is also the reason the last match had such awful imbalance. Without Zaheer, there's daylight between the two lineups.

Zaheers >>>>> Morkel on current form.

Infact if you look at the record over the last 1 and a half years then Zaheer = Steyn atm in terms of numbers and also on tougher wickets with lesser tail wickets and support.

And Harbhajan >>>> Kallis .

 

[Contra]

Delhi?

That Chennai pitch also varies from match to match and goes from flat to perfect to a very tough batting wicket depending on it's mood.


Bangalore is worst of this lot too ,i feel. Extremely boring test cricket even when it produces a result.
Slow low bounce makes it tough to score runs and also tough to take wickets,resulting in large sessions of nothing happening.

Well we haven't played in Delhi for a while (08 against Aus was the last test) so I'm not 100% sure exactly how the wicket is now. Going by some of the pitches used in IPL and ODI's I think the pitch is the slowest I've ever seen. Chennai is usually a good wicket. IIRC the reason it was a road in 08 vs SA was due to not being watered properly or something. Otherwise it's usually pretty good. As for Bangalore I dunno, personal preference I guess. It offers good reverse swing and some turn. If your good enough you will take wickets. And I mean this is India after all. We should prepare pitches that suit us and challenge the visiting teams. It's not our fault if the opposition bowlers can't adapt to the slow and low bounce (both batting and bowling wise).

 

[Zinzan]

Well played India, have shown a lot of fight in this test, but still think SA will win by 6 wickets.

Some vintage posting in the last 10 pages or so, opinions changing like the Wellington wind.

 

[Cevno]

Really think Dravid's career is ending now.. Has had this problem outside off for so long that I do not see him improving.. Time to have Lax at 3 and Pujara at 5..

He'll probably go to England now that he has not retired till now.
To be fair to him his knock was crucial in the first innings.

Besides with Laxman's way of playing and with him doing so well at 5 ,don't think we should push him up the order.
Not sure i want greenhorns at 5 and 6 together too.

I would in Pujara at 3 or maybe Badri and then try out Rahane,Kohli,Sharma at 6.

In Indian conditions Raina is good ,but he is bound to fail as we tour.

 

[Cevno]

Well we haven't played in Delhi for a while (08 against Aus was the last test) so I'm not 100% sure exactly how the wicket is now. Going by some of the pitches used in IPL and ODI's I think the pitch is the slowest I've ever seen. Chennai is usually a good wicket. IIRC the reason it was a road in 08 vs SA was due to not being watered properly or something. Otherwise it's usually pretty good. As for Bangalore I dunno, personal preference I guess. It offers good reverse swing and some turn. If your good enough you will take wickets. And I mean this is India after all. We should prepare pitches that suit us and challenge the visiting teams. It's not our fault if the opposition bowlers can't adapt to the slow and low bounce (both batting and bowling wise).

That Bangalore pitch favor's no one. Infact India have a poor record there overall.

Just makes for boring slow test cricket.

Pitches with bounce and spite favor India a lot more.

Out of the last 6 matches there 3 have been drawn . And since it was relaid with "Australian Soil" 2 of the last 3 have been boring draws.


I like the Chennai wicket.It offers bounce,spin,carry and makes for some of the most entertaining cricket.
But it rains too much there. And has cost us before in important positions.
Also as a result out of the last 4 tests there 3 have been draws.


Feroze Shah Kotla in Delhi hasn't currently hosted a test match since 2008 because it was banned for a year by **** ICC for being dangerous.

Until the 2008 test against AUS which was a oddity ,it produced a result in 9 test matches in a row since 1987.
With India winning 8 of those in a row since 1993.

It offers reverse swing, spin from day one/two. But the factor that favor's India most there is the unpredictable bounce. One ball rises and one ball is completely dead.
Also the wicket wears down easily,specially in the summers.

It was Kumble's favorite hunting ground for that reason. Makes for 270 being a good score games like the current one at Kingsmead but tests both the batsmen and the batters ,specially in terms of spin bowling.


In any case the Motera,Ahmedabad wicket is by far the worst.

Out of the last 7 test played there 5 have been draws.
And out of the 2 that produced results one was the South Africa game where except the first session where it was swinging everywhere the wicket was flat too. It was just watered too much to produce a result and as a result produced a lopsided contest ,specially with India's stupidity to bat first.

 

[Zinzan]

Loling at those that said Zaheer wouldn't make much of a difference to this team and their performance compared to the first test.

I still don't think Zaheer would have made a significant difference in that one-sided 1st test, possibly may have had some affect on the margin of victory, but that's all.

By that same rationale, Harby should have clean-up in the first test as well, since he got 4 for 10 here. Clearly a slightly different wicket.

 

[Furball]

Fun little stat.

England's bowling attack in the Ashes has collectively bowled 475.2 overs so far, and given away 5 no-balls.

Ishant Sharma gave away 7 in just 9 overs in South Africa's first innings.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I like the Chennai wicket.It offers bounce,spin,carry and makes for some of the most entertaining cricket.
But it rains too much there. And has caused us before in important positions.
Also as a result out of the last 4 tests there 3 have been draws.
.

More to do with the inept BCCI not factoring in climate patterns in their scheduling more than the wicket itself. Chennai is one of the best pitches in the world. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you don't schedule matches there in the November-December period.

Chennai actually had its own fixed annual test in earlier. Cricket season in India is October-March, and Calcutta (?) and Chennai generally hosted the New Years Test and Pongal Test respectively. Perhaps its time to follow SA's lead and bring back a fixed home schedule.

 

[Furball]

More to do with the inept BCCI not factoring in climate patterns in their scheduling more than the wicket itself. Chennai is one of the best pitches in the world. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you don't schedule matches there in the November-December period.

Chennai actually had its own fixed annual test in earlier. Cricket season in India is October-March, and Calcutta (?) and Chennai generally hosted the New Years Test and Pongal Test respectively. Perhaps its time to follow SA's lead and bring back a fixed home schedule.

Problem with that is you restrict yourselves to not touring either country for their festive period.

 

[Contra]

That Bangalore pitch favor's no one. Infact India have a poor record there overall.

Just makes for boring slow test cricket.

Pitches with bounce and spite favor India a lot more.

Out of the last 6 matches there 3 have been drawn . And since it was relaid with "Australian Soil" 2 of the last 3 have been boring draws.


I like the Chennai wicket.It offers bounce,spin,carry and makes for some of the most entertaining cricket.
But it rains too much there. And has caused us before in important positions.
Also as a result out of the last 4 tests there 3 have been draws.


Feroze Shah Kotla in Delhi hasn't currently hosted a test match since 2008 because it was banned for a year by **** ICC for being dangerous.

Until the 2008 test against AUS which was a oddity ,it produced a result in 9 test matches in a row since 1987.
With India winning 8 of those in a row since 1993.

It offers reverse swing, spin from day one/two. But the factor that favor's India most there is the unpredictable bounce. One ball rises and one ball is completely dead.
Also the wicket wears down easily,specially in the summers.

It was Kumble's favorite hunting ground for that reason. Makes for 270 being a good score games like the current one at Kingsmead but tests both the batsmen and the batters ,specially in terms of spin bowling.

India having a poor record doesn't mean it's a bad pitch though. The toss plays a big role in Bangalore yes, but then again it's always good to win the toss in India so it shouldn't' matter much. I've only been watching cricket seriously from the 06 Champs trophy till now. So I'm only going by the tests I've seen since then on these particular pitches. If I'm not wrong we have only played in Bangalore against the Aussies 08/10 and both were good matches. The one in 08 was definitely not a "boring draw". In fact we had to bat out the whole day to save the test, Australia weren't good enough to get us out. In the recent test in 2010 we saw it helped everyone. There was swing on offer when it was overcast, there was reverse swing and spin. But if you batted well you could get runs also. I don't understand how it's any slower than most other wickets in India tbh. Agreed with the rest of your post.

 

[Jono]

I still don't think Zaheer would have made a significant difference in that one-sided 1st test, possibly may have had some affect on the margin of victory, but that's all.

Pretty sure that's what everyone was saying all along

Fact is, you said India's bowlers would struggle to take wickets. They just bowled out SA in home conditions for 130-odd. Should admit when you are mistaken just like I did in the first test tbf.