***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Shri]

Not yet; Tendulkar's not good enough for that "league".

Nobody is good enough to be in North's league, not even Monty Panesar.

 

[Ikki]

Don't see how you can give credit to some 6-7 of them individually for the world cup (by saying something like Bevan has two world cups), when you say they all of contributed?

Why can't you? It's not like they all performed at the same time in every game. Some of them had bad games - sometimes a lot of them did. It's a bit of an overstatement to say a player wins a match single-handedly but many of them have distinct individual performances outside of the team effort. Especially wrt to cricket which whilst a team game is one that involves individual duels. It's not like football where there is a 11 v 11 situation. It's one batsman vs one bowler at a time. Especially at the WC which is a knock-out tourney where the group stages are more of a formality more than anything for the better teams. Perform well in the very few knock-out rounds and you've won a WC.

 

[centurymaker]

been saying that for weeks dude. tendulkar vs ponting sounds as dated as tendulkar vs inzamam. come on, people! ponting vs dravid sounds okay to me. ponting slightly, marginally better than dravid.... probably.

And KALLIS

 

[weldone]

been saying that for weeks dude. tendulkar vs ponting sounds as dated as tendulkar vs inzamam. come on, people! ponting vs dravid sounds okay to me. ponting slightly, marginally better than dravid.... probably.

Yeah, and what about ODIs? I haven't checked ODI stats of Dravid as it stands now. Is the difference between Ponting's and Dravid's ODI stats more than the difference between Sachin's and Ponting's? If so, then we can create a separate thread for Ganguly versus Ponting in ODIs. I'm sure if we are discussing Sachin versus Ponting in ODIs, then Ganguly versus Ponting in ODIs will be a more legitimate discussion.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, and what about ODIs? I haven't checked ODI stats of Dravid as it stands now. Is the difference between Ponting's and Dravid's ODI stats more than the difference between Sachin's and Ponting's? If so, then we can create a separate thread for Ganguly versus Ponting in ODIs. I'm sure if we are discussing Sachin versus Ponting in ODIs, then Ganguly versus Ponting in ODIs will be a more legitimate discussion.

Sachin Vs Ashes is the only real comparison Sachin should merit, obv..



And don't bring up them mangoes...

 

[bagapath]

Not yet; Tendulkar's not good enough for that "league". Tendulkar vs Atherton?

ha ha ha. north must be the pet hate of every guy down under. Tendulkar Vs Atherton might wake up Richard. So it is probably a good idea. Missing some of the guys. Where is Richard and where the hell is SJS and Archie Mac and The Sean and Mark and JBH 001?

 

[bagapath]

Yeah, and what about ODIs? I haven't checked ODI stats of Dravid as it stands now. Is the difference between Ponting's and Dravid's ODI stats more than the difference between Sachin's and Ponting's? If so, then we can create a separate thread for Ganguly versus Ponting in ODIs. I'm sure if we are discussing Sachin versus Ponting in ODIs, then Ganguly versus Ponting in ODIs will be a more legitimate discussion.

I think Sachin > Punter > Gangles >> Rahul in ODIs. In this format the first three are greats and Dravid was very good. The difference between them is probably in decimals but definite.

 

[weldone]

I think Sachin > Punter > Gangles >> Rahul in ODIs. In this format the first three are greats and Dravid was very good. The difference between them is probably in decimals but definite.

That's what I meant. If Tendulkar and Ponting can be compared in ODIs, then Ponting and Ganguly can be compared too - because the statistical difference in the first case is at least as large as that in the second case.

 

[weldone]

Tendulkar Vs Atherton might wake up Richard. So it is probably a good idea. Missing some of the guys. Where is Richard...

Richard was a passionate poster and a friend (so is Kazo).

But having both of them active in CW at the same time might not be the most novel of ideas, unless you get an erection watching pointless and cyclical multi-quote wars all around your world.

 

[srkven]

Tendulkar

Career statistics
Competition Test ODI FC LA

Runs scored 14,240 17,594 22,432 21,150
Batting average 56.96 45.12 59.03 45.87
100s/50s 49/58 46/93 74/101 57/111
Top score 248* 200* 248* 200*
Balls bowled 3,994 8,020 7,359 10,196
Wickets 44 154 69 201
Bowling average 52.25 44.26 60.73 42.01
5 wickets in innings 0 2 0 2
10 wickets in match 0 n/a 0 n/a
Best bowling 3/10 5/32 3/10 5/32
Catches/stumpings 106/–

Ponting

Career statistics
Competition Test ODIs FC List A
Matches 145 351 245 421
Runs scored 11,954 13,072 20,801 15,388
Batting average 54.83 42.85 57.46 42.50
100s/50s 39/51 29/79 73/89 33/94
Top score 257 164 257 164
Balls bowled 539 150 1,434 349
Wickets 5 3 14 8
Bowling average 48.40 34.66 54.85 33.62
5 wickets in innings 0 0 0 0
10 wickets in match 0 n/a 0 n/a
Best bowling 1/0 1/12 2/10 3/34
Catches/stumpings 172/– 152/– 261/– 184/–

* Off Wikipedia/Cricinfo *

Results speak for themselves: Tendulkar has higher average, more runs and more centuries. Top scores don't count for much, except though Ponting has actually played less matches than Tendulkar.

 

[vcs]

Well it depends who you're comparing. There are circumstances one may have where the other won't. In 96 the difference between the conditions in the 1st and 2nd inning were marked enough. Someone brought the point that Sachin's failure in 03 equates with Warne's in 96. Again, the ball had deteriorated markedly for Warne in that final. What like condition did Tendulkar face?

Both failed but the assertion was their failures were the same. What more it is irrelevant as Warne carried Aus through to the final again 4 years later and dominated it.


.

Really? So how come the dew didn't affect Warne's performances in the group stage match against India where he was very economical under the lights? How come he bowled a match-turning spell in the semis against W. Indies? Again under the lights. If dew was a factor in Lahore, it most certainly must have been a factor in Mohali as well. But no, there always has to be an excuse when it comes to defending your idols' bad performances. Tendulkar failed chasing 360+, that's entirely his fault. Warne failed in the final? It was the dew. As a bowler, Warne had 10 overs to make an impact in the final and failed miserably, whereas it takes one ball for a batsman to get out.

You're all too eager to point out when others failed but absolutely unwilling to ever, ever, admit that your idols might have been less than perfect and failed their first audition as well. Always some excuse or the other. That's why it's pointless having a discussion on this with you. Maybe there was some grand plan behind Warne testing positive before the 2003 WC and getting banned. After all, Australia won the WC, didn't they?

 

[robelinda]

I'm not going to get invloved in this argument, but have to back up Ikki's quite factual statement, there was no dew whatsoever in Mohali for that WI match, was pretty dry and pitch was spinning. In Lahore it was pretty crazy in the final, wet as. Not going to say it was an excuse for Warne, just stating the facts. I personally couldnt give a rats anus about the ridiculous wast of time arguments in this thread, if I have spare time I will go and enjoy some cricket, not waste time arguing when there's little to no chance of actually changing someones opinion that they so strongly cling to, as is their right. Pretty silly to compare Warne to Sachin in the first place.

 

[ankitj]

I personally couldnt give a rats anus about the ridiculous wast of time arguments in this thread, if I have spare time I will go and enjoy some cricket, not waste time arguing when there's little to no chance of actually changing someones opinion that they so strongly cling to, as is their right.

I will do what I will rather do. I will rather not lecture on why I will not do what I will rather not do

Pretty silly to compare Warne to Sachin in the first place.

You know the context?

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not going to get invloved in this argument, but have to back up Ikki's quite factual statement, there was no dew whatsoever in Mohali for that WI match, was pretty dry and pitch was spinning. In Lahore it was pretty crazy in the final, wet as. Not going to say it was an excuse for Warne, just stating the facts. I personally couldnt give a rats anus about the ridiculous wast of time arguments in this thread, if I have spare time I will go and enjoy some cricket, not waste time arguing when there's little to no chance of actually changing someones opinion that they so strongly cling to, as is their right. Pretty silly to compare Warne to Sachin in the first place.

There was a LOT of dew in Mumbai against India though.. And he went fine then..

 

[bagapath]

An international cricketer is expected to play in a hell a lot of ODIs with the dew factor having a say in a large proportion of matches in his career. He can't ever use that as an excuse to cover up a bad day on the field. If I were to choose a cricketer in my team I would rather have the one who does well all around the year than someone who can't bowl when there is dew.

Sorry skipper, the ball is slippery.

What sort of an excuse is that? GAGF Shane!

 

[Ikki]

Really? So how come the dew didn't affect Warne's performances in the group stage match against India where he was very economical under the lights? How come he bowled a match-turning spell in the semis against W. Indies? Again under the lights. If dew was a factor in Lahore, it most certainly must have been a factor in Mohali as well. But no, there always has to be an excuse when it comes to defending your idols' bad performances. Tendulkar failed chasing 360+, that's entirely his fault. Warne failed in the final? It was the dew. As a bowler, Warne had 10 overs to make an impact in the final and failed miserably, whereas it takes one ball for a batsman to get out.

You're all too eager to point out when others failed but absolutely unwilling to ever, ever, admit that your idols might have been less than perfect and failed their first audition as well. Always some excuse or the other. That's why it's pointless having a discussion on this with you. Maybe there was some grand plan behind Warne testing positive before the 2003 WC and getting banned. After all, Australia won the WC, didn't they?

No, there was no dew then IIRC, that's just your assumption. I am not saying dew = get out of jail card. I didn't say that doesn't make him a failure in that final. However, read the post you just quoted from me for christ's sake; I said both were failures but Warne's failure and Tendulkar's are different.

Those conditions materially disadvantaged Warne who was forced to bowl an entire inning with a cake of soap - sometimes the dew doesn't affect the ball that much, it did in that game and it is simply a verifiable fact for those that followed the game.

Still, Warne and Tendulkar are not the same; he came back 4 years later and was even better with another amazing performance in the semis and helped decimate the Pakistani line-up in the final. I know you were being a smartass and I could have let it go; but I decided to have a discussion with you because you seem to comprehend a point even if you disagree with it.

The second part of your post is just crap that I expect from the likes of Migara or ankit or Avada but not you mate.

 

[ankitj]

The second part of your post is just crap that I expect from the likes of Migara or ankit or Avada but not you mate.

Despite all the discussions I locked horns with you in, I thought you will have some respect for difference of opinion.

So what was the "crap" I posted? To point out what was not a flaw in my value of wicket analysis (which is actually high school level math)? To point out that post-facto removing some minnows and retain others when assessing Sobers as a batsman is totally flawed? To point out that 60 matches can't be too few if you are making points by considering as few as 3 or 1 matches?

These are examples not of any subjective difference of opinions but of your arguments that will be laughed at by anyone who has any sense of stat and math. Yet you have the gumption of being that judgmental. I thought a little better of you.

 

[vcs]

That was a bit of a rant in the end but I still don't agree that dew can be used as a justification. No more than using a huge run-chase as justification for Tendulkar. Anything else is double standards in my opinion. I have already credited Warne for his performances in '99.

Anyway, it is important to remember that even Australians, for all their perfection in World Cups, have not individually turned in 10/10 performances on their first introduction to the big stage. Many have failed, got second opportunities, and made good. It is to their credit but don't make them out to be some paragons of perfection.

 

[Cricketismylife]

I have to agree with Ankit and vcs. Ikki's English is very good but he doesn't seem to understand statistics, he has shown levels of double standards and statistic picking. For example, Murali despite playing only 5 tests in Australia in an 18 year career is judged and has a huge significance on such a small sample. but it's not a big deal for Ponting to have a poor record over 14 tests in India according to Ikki.

As for the "how valuable is a wicket analysis" no one has ever claimed is perfect model, but combining that with the bowling average, is certainly a better way of assessing players than just looking at plain average. But of course, Ikki won't accept any analysis which has Warne below Murali. You may accuse me of bias, but I would be happy to inspect the theory that another Australian Mcgrath is more effective than Murali.

As for the 1996 final, it's Warne's fault for not being able to bowl well dew or no dew, just as it's Tendulkar's fault for scoring 4. If anything Tendulkar's challenge was harder in chasing 360 fo victory.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

The second part of your post is just crap that I expect from the likes of Migara or ankit or Avada but not you mate.

u have no right to post stuff like that when ur the most biased person in this forum.u twist stats to favor ur idols and keep shifting goalposts as ur lies keep getting caught and then start abusing posters when u get pwned,keep ur crap to urself.