• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Best ever ODI bowler

Best ever ODI bowler


  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

Faisal1985

International Vice-Captain
Was talking in Tests.

McGrath's record in Australia: 289 wickets @ 22.43, SR 54.7
McGrath's record outside Australia: 274 wickets @ 20.81, SR 48.9

Wasim's record in Pakistan: 154 wickets @ 22.22, SR 51.1
Wasim's record outside Pakistan: 260 wickets @ 24.44, SR 56.7

Someone claimed McGrath had helpful surfaces, my argument is that his home pitches weren't as condusive for bowling as away pitches, and claiming that Wasim had poor home pitches doesn't stand up when you compare his home record to his away one.
Buddy, Akram's good record at home is precisely the reason i claim he was better then McGrath. Because he was better on less bowling friendly surfaces...

You are saying that since Akram was better at home it means the home surface were bowling friendly? You know thats not true. Pak never or barely had bowling friendly tracks.
 

Faisal1985

International Vice-Captain
Define "bowler friendly." No such conditions exist.
Conditions which exist in England, where the ball seams and swings and where Pak bowlers only recently triggered multiple collapses against Aus and Eng. Such conditions also exist in NZ, SA. Australia's pitches also help bowlers more then what Pak or most of the subcontinent/Sharjah pitches do.

And yes they do exist...
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Buddy, Akram's good record at home is precisely the reason i claim he was better then McGrath. Because he was better on less bowling friendly surfaces...

You are saying that since Akram was better at home it means the home surface were bowling friendly? You know thats not true. Pak never or barely had bowling friendly tracks.
But then surely Wasim's poor record in England counts massively against him? Particularly given that Wasim played County Cricket for years.

Generic "bowler friendly" conditions simply don't exist. Looking at his career record, "bowling friendly" for Wasim is New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Pakistan, whereas for McGrath it's England, New Zealand, West Indies and India.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Australia's pitches also help bowlers more then what Pak or most of the subcontinent/Sharjah pitches do.
Not true. Australia over the past 10 years has been the worst place to bowl on the planet. There's plenty of instances of non-subcontinental bowlers going to the subcontinent and doing very well, there's very few instances of non Australian bowlers doing well in Australia.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
Not true. Australia over the past 10 years has been the worst place to bowl on the planet. There's plenty of instances of non-subcontinental bowlers going to the subcontinent and doing very well, there's very few instances of non Australian bowlers doing well in Australia.
Australian team being the best team in the same period would explain that. Very recently Steyn, Asif, Amir etc caused them trouble.
 
Last edited:

smash84

The Tiger King
Either way, you're equally guilty by making such a big thing about Wasim's home country when in reality he barely played there.
67 matches is not "barely playing" at home. Talk about misrepresenting facts..... It is nearly 20% of his career matches. So what is your cut-off for enough matches, 300??? I don't think anybody ever played so many matches in one country.

Australian team being the best team in the same period would explain that. Very recently Steyn, Asif, Amir etc caused them trouble.
That might partially explain it.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Australian team being the best team in the same period would explain that. Very recently Steyn, Asif, Amir etc caused them trouble.
Australian pitches have gone flatter over the years and that has made it increasingly difficult for visiting bowlers to take wickets against our batsmen but Australia's best two bowlers (Warne and McGrath) actually did better away than at home as well.

I agree with GF in that different conditions can be good for different people. Imran, Waqar and Wasim were all players who did much better at home than away in Tests. So it really breaks up the argument that they were bowling on bad pitches for them. They were primarily swing bowlers and the humid conditions and dry pitches could have actually helped them. Who knows? But it certainly didn't hinder them in Tests.
 
Last edited:

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
67 matches is not "barely playing" at home. Talk about misrepresenting facts..... It is nearly 20% of his career matches. So what is your cut-off for enough matches, 300??? I don't think anybody ever played so many matches in one country.
I know it's about 20% of his career, so it is nowhere hear as important as you make it out with your comments about his home nation, seeing as he actually bowled more in 2 other countries than in Pakistan.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
I know it's about 20% of his career, so it is nowhere hear as important as you make it out with your comments about his home nation, seeing as he actually bowled more in 2 other countries than in Pakistan.
20% of one's career is a significant portion to be playing at one place. Only in Sharjah has he played more ODI matches (in Australia slightly less i.e. 64 matches). So how is it "nowhere near as important" as I make it out???? He has still played the most number of matches (after Sharjah) in Pakistan and both percentage wise as well as in absolute terms the number of matches he played in Pakistan is reasonably high.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Interesting to note that McGrath did better than Wasim in both Pakistan and Australia though. Only played 2 ODIs in Sharjah on the other hand.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
20% of one's career is a significant portion to be playing at one place. Only in Sharjah has he played more ODI matches (in Australia slightly less i.e. 64 matches). So how is it "nowhere near as important" as I make it out???? He has still played the most number of matches (after Sharjah) in Pakistan and both percentage wise as well as in absolute terms the number of matches he played in Pakistan is reasonably high.
But it's only his 3rd venue in terms of where he's bowled - the importance you attach to by harping on about it being his home suggests that he bowls half the time there!
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Australian pitches have gone flatter over the years and that has made it increasingly difficult for visiting bowlers to take wickets against out batsmen but it's best two bowlers (Warne and McGrath) actually did better away than at home as well.

I agree with GF in that different conditions can be good for different people. Imran, Waqar and Wasim were all players who did much better at home than away in Tests. So it really breaks up the argument that they were bowling on bad pitches for them. They were primarily swing bowlers and the humid conditions and dry pitches could have actually helped them. Who knows? But it certainly didn't hinder them in Tests.
I would think that Test matches and ODIs are very different games altogether. There are only 10 overs to bowl in ODIs and so many other restrictions in ODIs for the bowlers (they can't bowl too wide, they can't bowl too short, field restrictions etc) so the game plays out very differently for everyone. The bowlers can't take time to settle themselves into a rythm and the batsmen are attacking most of the time. So the game is very different.

And it is strange that Imran has better ODI record at home than away, Wasim has the other way around, and Waqar has almost the same record both home and away. While in test matches all have much better home records than away records. So I am not sure what that means.

But I do think that if average ODI scores are to calculated they would be much higher in Pakistan or India, than in Australia. Which could well mean that the pitches are easier to bat on.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Was talking in Tests.
Thank You for clarifying that you were throwing in Test match stats in an ODI thread without warning others.


But it's only his 3rd venue in terms of where he's bowled - the importance you attach to by harping on about it being his home suggests that he bowls half the time there!
If you want to be pedantic about it, it is his second venue in terms of how many matches he has played. He has played 67 in Pakistan and 77 in Sharjah. So that is what I have been asking you that you don't consider 20% of the matches to be a good enough number????
 

Blaze 18

Banned
You would think with the 2 best ODI bowlers ever that Pakistan would have won a bit more. Particularly with Saqlain around as well.
They were an extremely good ODI side in the 1990's.


1) Saeed Anwar
2) Shahid Afridi
3) Ijaz Ahmed
4) Inzamam-ul-Haq
5) Yousuf Yohana
6) Abdul Razzaq
7) Moin Khan
8) Azhar Mahmood
9) Wasim Akram
10)Waqar Younis
11)Saqlain Mustaq

That is an ODI side to kill for!
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Not just when it mattered.:ph34r:
???? Other than the 1999 WC final. And there has been a leadership crisis since Imran Khan retired in 1992. Wasim Akram did a fine job for a few years in the until the 99 WC. However their performance has still been better than most other teams in the 90s. Probably only SA, and Aus can lay claim to having played better cricket than Pak in the 90s. SL were decent, India were terrible, NZ were not too good. WI were great in the first half but declined steadily over the decade to become quite **** in the last part of 90s.

The main problem was leadership and during the time that it was stable they were world beaters.
 

Faisal1985

International Vice-Captain
I would think that Test matches and ODIs are very different games altogether. There are only 10 overs to bowl in ODIs and so many other restrictions in ODIs for the bowlers (they can't bowl too wide, they can't bowl too short, field restrictions etc) so the game plays out very differently for everyone. The bowlers can't take time to settle themselves into a rythm and the batsmen are attacking most of the time. So the game is very different.

And it is strange that Imran has better ODI record at home than away, Wasim has the other way around, and Waqar has almost the same record both home and away. While in test matches all have much better home records than away records. So I am not sure what that means.

But I do think that if average ODI scores are to calculated they would be much higher in Pakistan or India, than in Australia. Which could well mean that the pitches are easier to bat on.
This....is my whole point.
 

Top