*Official* First Test at the Gabba

[Noble One]

Not stating anything new, but the selection of Doherty lacks any logic. What has changed between the selection of the 'A' squad and today that has made O'Keefe fall out of contention?

Doherty is a good bowler, but how after years of mediocrity does he jump into a Test squad? Their appears to be no logic, or thinking for the future in regard to spinners in this country. Since the retirement of Warne it has simply been a shambles. The selectors cannot be blamed for the poor quality of players available, but how about showing some consistency and sticking with someone?

Casson never deserved to play, but why give him just the one Test? He didn't even play that poorly. Krezja was selected to play a role, he played it perfectly and has been discarded. McGain was belted in his one game, but he was the only consistent performing spinner in the country at the time. Smith did OK in his debut series, have the selectors kept him in the loop regarding his future spin-bowling prospects for Australia? Steve O'Keefe is given a game in the T20 (despite being his worst format), Jon Holland is taken on tour to India, Cameron White bowls some leg-spinners in India. It is a terrible run with selecting, managing and then discarding spinners.

I was hardly surprised when Michael Beer was mentioned for selection based on a half-decent game against England.

 

[Woodster]

Not stating anything new, but the selection of Doherty lacks any logic. What has changed between the selection of the 'A' squad and today that has made O'Keefe fall out of contention?

Doherty is a good bowler, but how after years of mediocrity does he jump into a Test squad? Their appears to be no logic, or thinking for the future in regard to spinners in this country. Since the retirement of Warne it has simply been a shambles. The selectors cannot be blamed for the poor quality of players available, but how about showing some consistency and sticking with someone?

Casson never deserved to play, but why give him just the one Test? He didn't even play that poorly. Krezja was selected to play a role, he played it perfectly and has been discarded. McGain was belted in his one game, but he was the only consistent performing spinner in the country at the time. Smith did OK in his debut series, have the selectors kept him in the loop regarding his future spin-bowling prospects for Australia? Steve O'Keefe is given a game in the T20 (despite being his worst format), Jon Holland is taken on tour to India, Cameron White bowls some leg-spinners in India. It is a terrible run with selecting, managing and then discarding spinners.

I was hardly surprised when Michael Beer was mentioned for selection based on a half-decent game against England.

From an outsider looking in it looks a shambles aswell. England too have showed inconsistency in selecting spinners in the past, and it seems with Australia they have no courage in their convictions and sticking with a spinner or second spinner and allowing them the time to become accustomed to the demands, technical, physical and mental, of Test cricket.

All spiners in Australia are only one good performance away from national selection. Crazy.

 

[Prince EWS]

All spiners in Australia are only one good performance away from national selection. Crazy.

It does sound crazy but it really isn't as stupid as it sounds. None of the spinners have done.. anything in Shield cricket, really.. McGain and, at a stretch, O'Keefe aside. A couple of good performances in a row genuinely would send any of them legitimately right up the pecking order.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think the biggest blunder of them all has proven to be the selection of Casson over McGain for the Windies tour. Now, McGain wasn't, and isn't, a long term option, but the possibility of giving him the Test that Casson got, and settling into Test match cricket could have seen him establish himself in the side. As it was, he got his game returning back from injury, and was underprepared.

From there, we've seen McGain do reasonably well for Victoria (although has been pressured out with some impetus from national selectors who want to look at Holland), and Casson get the yips.

 

[pup11]

What about Beau Casson, apart from McGain he was the only domestic spinner in recent history to have a decent season, but now he has completly vanished from the scene. I know a lot of people rated him very poorly but its just sad to see spinners being treated like this in Oz, can also say pretty much the same for the Cullens from South Australia.
I also disagree with what PEWS is saying regarding selection of spinners in international cricket. Yeah its true... that none of the spinners in FC cricket have the numbers to really claim a spot but given the conditions and everything, isn't it the responsibility of the selectors who go and watch these FC games to spot a spinner who has some potential?
Selecting a team is not just about picking the domestic stats of a season and picking the top performers from it, selecting is all about scouting for talent and then backing that talent, gotta say these selectors have failed on both fronts and there is just no justification for they way they have handled things!!

 

[Top_Cat]

What about Beau Casson, apart from McGain he was the only domestic spinner in recent history to have a decent season, but now he has completly vanished from the scene.

That's the thing; he really didn't. Played more a role of a low-order bat who took the occasional (small) bag and suddenly he was a front-line Test spinner. Crazy (no not him).

 

[Woodster]

It does sound crazy but it really isn't as stupid as it sounds. None of the spinners have done.. anything in Shield cricket, really.. McGain and, at a stretch, O'Keefe aside. A couple of good performances in a row genuinely would send any of them legitimately right up the pecking order.

I appreciate that no-one has really grabbed the headlines on a consistent basis in Australia and so not making a place in the squad their own, however, the selectors need to back their judgement and if a player does not have instant success, if he's the man they believe to be the next Aussie spinner, then they need to persevere with him. At the moment it almost seems like it's names out of a hat for each squad selection, a case of 'right who's bowled well in the last round of games?'. It is crazy and it seems to me to be as stupid as it sounds. They're hoping someone comes straight in and has an immediate impact, they're hoping they fall lucky.

 

[pup11]

That's the thing; he really didn't. Played more a role of a low-order bat who took the occasional (small) bag and suddenly he was a front-line Test spinner. Crazy (no not him).

If I'm not wrong he took 31 FC wkts in one season, now that certainly ain't bad, you and lot of other people think he's crap, but the fact is he was picked and he played one test in the West Indies took three wkts in the game, but surprisingly after that in the next series against India they ignored him for White!!!
Now... the Oz fans, media and selectors also need to snap out of the Warne-MacGill era and understand that there are no spinners around who are world-beaters, but there are more than a few decent spinners around and all they gotta to do is pick which one's they are gonna back, rather than trying to find a Warne among the current lot.
Someone like Hauritz gets a tremendous amount of flak from everywhere, but on closer inspection one will find his performances are as good or bad as most present day spinners (excluding Swann) a fact that nobody really wants to consider.

 

[Howe_zat]

If I'm not wrong he took 31 FC wkts in one season, now that certainly ain't bad, you and lot of other people think he's crap, but the fact is he was picked and he played one test in the West Indies took three wkts in the game, but surprisingly after that in the next series against India they ignored him for White!!!
Now... the Oz fans, media and selectors also need to snap out of the Warne-MacGill era and understand that there are no spinners around who are world-beaters, but there are more than a few decent spinners around and all they gotta to do is pick which one's they are gonna back, rather than trying to find a Warne among the current lot.
Someone like Hauritz gets a tremendous amount of flak from everywhere, but on closer inspection one will find his performances are as good or bad as most present day spinners (excluding Swann) a fact that nobody really wants to consider.

My thoughts exactly, Hauritz seems very unfairly maligned. One thing that's really weird is that the policy towards batsmen has been completely different, having stuck with Hussey and North through thick and thin*, can't there be a compromise here?

*mostly thin

 

[social]

From an outsider looking in it looks a shambles aswell. England too have showed inconsistency in selecting spinners in the past, and it seems with Australia they have no courage in their convictions and sticking with a spinner or second spinner and allowing them the time to become accustomed to the demands, technical, physical and mental, of Test cricket.

All spiners in Australia are only one good performance away from national selection. Crazy.

TBF, Hauritz has been the first pick spinner for a couple of years and this situation is unlikely to have arisen if anyone had had the balls to tell the marketing men that the timing of the launch didnt suit

 

[social]

Bit harsh on O'Keefe and Ronnie. What do you have to do to picked in a 17 man squad when you make 3 tons in 3 games?

Fail by the looks of the others picked

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Fail by the looks of the others picked

Must admit when i went to bed last night the squad hadn't been announced but we knew about the Harris injury so i didn't expect him to be named and when i saw the headlines that 17 had been picked i presumed McDonald was one of them and he had been chosen due to his excellent recent form.I was pleasantly surprised he hasn't been included,not sure he is up to test cricket but he is clearly a man in form at present and should be in a 17 man squad surely.

 

[Woodster]

TBF, Hauritz has been the first pick spinner for a couple of years and this situation is unlikely to have arisen if anyone had had the balls to tell the marketing men that the timing of the launch didnt suit

Yes they have stuck with Hauritz for a while now, was thinking more about the second spinner role, although there is continued speculation about replacing Hauritz. Perhaps there is a method in their selection of the spinners, it just doesn't appear to be too clear.

 

[Sylvester]

As has been said our spinners are essentially two 5 fers from jumping the spin queue. And likewise the incumbent test spinner is 1 series worth of expensive spin from being hang out to dry. Haurtiz was picked for his defensive abilities but was going at more than Johnson in India. You could understand him going for a touch over 3 an over but when you are pushing the 4 an over and more and not doing a Krejza then you got problems. If he continues that streak in the Ashes he has to be shown the door.

 

[Prince EWS]

I appreciate that no-one has really grabbed the headlines on a consistent basis in Australia and so not making a place in the squad their own, however, the selectors need to back their judgement and if a player does not have instant success, if he's the man they believe to be the next Aussie spinner, then they need to persevere with him. At the moment it almost seems like it's names out of a hat for each squad selection, a case of 'right who's bowled well in the last round of games?'. It is crazy and it seems to me to be as stupid as it sounds. They're hoping someone comes straight in and has an immediate impact, they're hoping they fall lucky.

I think the selectors know that none of the options are good enough though. As soon as one of them does something in Shield cricket they get justifiably excited because it's so rare. O'Keefe taking 7/20 odd for Australia A and then backing it up with an eight wicket haul in Shield cricket the next game he played is soooooooo much more than Hauritz ever did at those levels, so unless Hauritz is gaining cricket by his performances for Australia - which he really hasn't been lately - then O'Keefe could quite justifiably queue jump him.

It's not a case of them losing faith or changing their minds about who they rate constantly - they don't actually rate any of them.. for quite a good reason.

 

[Prince EWS]

My thoughts exactly, Hauritz seems very unfairly maligned. One thing that's really weird is that the policy towards batsmen has been completely different, having stuck with Hussey and North through thick and thin*, can't there be a compromise here?

*mostly thin

North and especially Hussey actually deserved to be in the team in the first place though. Hauritz was a random ****house pick based on a good season for Randwick (seriously lol) and a lack of alternatives. There's no point backing players you never actually rated in the first place.

 

[zaremba]

There's a pretty long and distinguished history in Oz cricket of picking spinners out of nowhere isn't there? I think that's pretty cool.

Anyway Hauritz is under-rated in my view, I like the cut of his jib

 

[NasserFan207]

Heres the thing, if North and Katich play, does Australia even need a frontline spinner (particularly if the options are all rather average)? Why not just pick one of the many promising seamers?

 

[Jarquis]

McDonald

 

[four_or_six]

Is this problem with selection of spinners as much a problem with states as anything else? I don't follow Australian domestic FC cricket massively closely, but the spinner within each state side seems to change quite a lot, have any of them had a good couple of years playing FC cricket to develop? I know there's advantages of only having six teams, but in developing those positions where there's only one in each team, like a spinner, it seems to make it difficult.