***Official*** Spot-Fixing Scandal

[Burgey]

That's is my concern. We are passing judgments here based on videos and percieving them as cheats when we don't even know the whole case....ALL we know is the videos...then why call them cheats just yet....?

Why jump the gun and start calling for the elimination of Pak team, life bans etc. etc...what is all that non sense...?

Jump the gun?

Are you serious?

FMD mate, I walk into court to prosecute a case like this, I tender the video of the meeting, then the video of the no balls. Then I sit down.

Then I put my feet up on the bar table for two weeks while the defendants wallow their way through trying to make it look like some sort of bizarre coincidence or, even better for my side, they try and make out a conspiracy.

Then the jury deliberates for 12 minutes, 8 of which is walking to and from the jury room and ordering lunch, then they come back and deliver a guilty verdict, then they file out for sandwiches.

Then I go to the pub and have a giggle about it before sending the bill out.

It's brilliant. Be one of the better anecdotes of my legal career.

If the video of the meeting pre-dates the Test match and it's authentic, then the players are toast.

I understand your frustration mate. But there's no conspiracy here. Nevertheless, like you....

 

[91Jmay]

The only reason the legal arguement is weak, is because the defrauding bookmakers charge cannot be leavelled in England, because only bent bookmakers on the sub-continent take spot-betting in cricket. The fixer involved technically defrauded no UK based or owned bookmaker thus making him not guilty.

What a bastard.

However, there is almost no arguement the 3 players indicated are guilty. Reports i'm reading are that the notes found in the players room are the same given to the fixer by the NOTW. Guilty - thats indisputable. Akmal i'd like to see some evidence first (although the footage of the Sydney test is pretty damming lol) though.

 

[99*]

Just a question. Can NOTW be charged for the tampering/defrauding/whatever it is anyway? They did pay money in order to make sure certain things happened during the game.

 

[SJS]

Lets get this thing straightened out. NOTW did not ask Majeed to have the no balls bowled.

The Majeed character has been going around trying to promote his "business" of 'fixing' cricket matches for the benefit of his clients - existing or potential.

The NOTW reporters contacted him pretending to be a far east betting syndicate and wanted to know how could Majeed assure them he was not just making an idle boast.

In order to prove his credentials, of his hold over the Pakistani cricketers, of being able to get them to do his bidding, he suggested a small 'trailer' if you please; of a 'relatively harmless' preview (as far as the game and any actual betting is concerned) of what he could do.

So he said he could make them bowl no balls on the exact balls of the exact over and gave the over and ball numbers off the cuff.

When asked who would bowl the particular overs, he said so and so. All this NOT FOR ANY SPOT FIXING, as the media has been crying hoarse, but just to advertise the quality of his 'product/services' - if you please.

And then he delivered on his promise.

To watch the tapes live and to see what actually happened is shocking even when one is convinced that this kind of thing has been happening regularly for a long time.

To say that these are allegations and not yet proven maybe okay from the point of view of protecting one's backside from legal action by the defendants but to actually believe that this entire thing is some elaborate hoax is to deny that your ancestors were apes; and to claim the ostrich as a recent grand grand grand . . . parent.

Yes the bowlers concerned were not doing any great harm to the game in question by those three no balls surely it showed what a hold characters like Majeed have over these cricketers.

To say that salman butt was not involved is to show complete lack of logic and reasoning. How could it be assured that the 'right' bowler bowled the particular over without the captain being involved?

To say that only the Pakistani cricketers do such things is to show naiveté, bias, a holier than thou attitude or a combination of one or more of these. However, having said that, the fact is that it is Pakistan who have been embroiled in it so often, they are the ones that are being caught with the hand in the cookie jar and they are the ones that are squealing on their team-mates.

So they have to face the music.

To ask for Pakistan to be banned from Test cricket because their cricketers are involved is unfair but it is not unfair to ask Pakistan to take stringent and IRREVOCABLE action or else. This is nit just completely fair but is also absolutely necessary.

That Mr Pawar, a senior minister from a country that has serious political issues going back over sixty years with Pakistan, is the President of ICC is yet another reason to bemoan the pre-eminence of politicians in sporting bodies. He is in between a rock and a hard place today and he does not know what to do.

The only people who have genuine stakes in the game and who should be expected to do the right thing in this situation are the poor hapless Pakistani cricket fans. One's heart goes out to them but how one wishes they would put their knee-jerk reactions, defensive or otherwise, aside and realise what an unholy mess their cricket and their country is in.

It doesn't matter whether the rest of the world is being fair to them or not. They need to ask themselves whether they are being fair to their country's and their cricket's long term future. Sentimentality and trying to put up a front before the rest of the world wont help anything except pamper our personal egos. We have to understand that the bruises to our egos, howsoever severe, are the least of our problems in such a crisis. There are much more serious and urgent issues at stake.

We dont have to listen to the shameless leaders who are crying,"Its a moment of shame for our country". These leaders have brought greater shame to our countries than the cricketers. But the fact ios that we are discussing the cricketers now and we need to set our house in order as far as the cricket is concerned.

I may be excused for using the first person even when talking of the Pakistani fans but as always, I feel a strong sense of affinity to my brothers across the border and wish them well.

 

[shivfan]

Well, four players look likely to be suspended now, and are unlikely to take any further part in the tour, pending an investigation - Salman Butt, Mo Asif, Mo Amir, and Kamran Akmal. I think that's the right decision....

 

[Matt79]

Well, four players look likely to be suspended now, and are unlikely to take any further part in the tour, pending an investigation - Salman Butt, Mo Asif, Mo Amir, and Kamran Akmal. I think that's the right decision....

Reckon if I were an international cricketer asked to play against these guys I'd be torn between refusing to do so, as a statement against tolerance of corruption, or playing and taking a $50 note out on the field, showing it so everyone can see and then insist on trying to give it to one or all of those players while winking at them.

 

[fredfertang]

I wonder if any of those involved will use the tried and trusted "Grobbelaar defence" ie I was carrying out my own investigation with a view to presenting my findings to the authorities

 

[honestbharani]

I wonder if any of those involved will use the tried and trusted "Grobbelaar defence" ie I was carrying out my own investigation with a view to presenting my findings to the authorities

It should be called the "Manoj Prabhakar Defence" in this case though..

 

[GotSpin]

Reckon if I were an international cricketer asked to play against these guys I'd be torn between refusing to do so, as a statement against tolerance of corruption, or playing and taking a $50 note out on the field, showing it so everyone can see and then insist on trying to give it to one or all of those players while winking at them.

What international board would want to play Pakistan after this until all these players are given life long bans

 

[r3alist]

guys guys....the NOTW is a pretty cheap tabloid, it is somewhat plausible that they would try and fabricate this because they know it would get a certain amount of mileage and make it $$$$


but......


this would surely have to be a really stupid move by them which would cost them $$$$$$ in compensation, which to my mind makes it unlikely


thats really the only two possibilites, talk of occam's razor and the such is nothing more than mental masturbation

 

[fromage]

What the **** has Atherton's dirt in the pocket incident got to do with this?

My point was about cricket in general, and that cheating's not a new problem, so
Everything.

Crickets punishment system has been too leniant for too long.

What was the punishment for Atherton ?caught on camera , deliberatly cheating in an international test.Ok, he hadn't taken any money (or had he???)


Atheton claimed it was to dry his hands but I saw him rubbing it on the ball.Look for yourself.

Cricket: England v South Africa:First Test Stock Footage from Thought Equity Motion

Atherton acknowledged he had not mentioned the dirt in his pocket to the match referee and he was subsequently fined £2,000.

This pakistani player has bowled no balls.
He can claim that he was running in hard for his country.
The sting operation by the notw must at least have alarm bells ringing in the back of everyone's mind? Given the papers record and the accusations of photoshopped pictures?

Don't believe anything until its proven, keep an open mind.


To continue with my point think about Alec stewer (Indian bookmaker alleged that Stewart had accepted money for information during England's trip to India in 1992-93)Warne and drugs,(small ban time, not the two years you'd get in athletics)Warne and John the bookmaker(swept under the carpet) Botham's ahes bet (500 to 1 and the aussies Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh took the bet, no punishment)

In the 2000 scandal, Hansie Cronje and Saleem Malik paid the price, but Azharuddin (life ban in 2000, lifted in 2006) Gibbs (baned for six months) and Ajaysinhji Daulatsinhji Jadeja got 5 years(later quashed by the Delhi High Court) all should have been more severley punished.
edit
I've gone off topic and I discuss this more here, my apologies.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/47967-cricket-scandals.html#post2308188

Back to this scandal.
The PCB won't suspend anyone until any solid evidence is found.


What we need to do is put it into context.
Pakistan has other more pressing problems than this at the moment.

 

[weldone]

I don't understand all this fuss about any clear proof not being there.

Are we waiting for the DNA test to happen?

Or, are we claiming that nothing happened ever in reality, and players being bribed took place only in the 2nd level of dreaming (like in Inception)?

Next, a CW poster will say that posting in cricketweb doesn't happen in reality at all, because the world itself is an illusion (or 'maya', in Sanskrit), and he'll refuse to admit that he (or anyone with the same username, whatever that means) has ever posted in cricketweb, unless a clear proof is shown.

 

[Matt79]

guys guys....the NOTW is a pretty cheap tabloid, it is somewhat plausible that they would try and fabricate this because they know it would get a certain amount of mileage and make it $$$$


but......


this would surely have to be a really stupid move by them which would cost them $$$$$$ in compensation, which to my mind makes it unlikely


thats really the only two possibilites, talk of occam's razor and the such is nothing more than mental masturbation

That's one of my favourite types of self-abuse!

All Occam's Razor means here is if there are only two explanations, the much simpler one is more likely.

Or phrased alternatively, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, craps like a duck and is delicious when double-roasted and wrapped in crepes like a duck, it's probably a duck.

 

[weldone]

Or phrased alternatively, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, craps like a duck and is delicious when double-roasted and wrapped in crepes like a duck, it's probably a duck.

No, I won't admit.

I know the sun rises in the east everyday.

But today morning, I don't think it was the sun that rose in the east. Rather I think it was another star, though it looked similar to the sun. Might be some dirty game played by some intelligent alien.

Show me a clear proof that it was the sun, else I won't believe!

 

[PhoenixFire]

Was really interesting listening to Marcus du Sautoy, who is a Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, saying that in conjunction with cricket writers and umpires (who helped him with the understanding of the occurence of no-balls) there was a 1:1000000 chance of predicting 3 no-balls in the day for Mohammed Amir.

Obviously everyone knows that it was highly unlikely that it was anything other than fixing if it was proved to be true, but it was interesting nonetheless.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Hey, there was also a 1 in 100000000 chance of England winning an ICC tournament, but they finally did it.

 

[Matt79]

Fromage - No. We are not derailing this conversation by dragging every other instance of ethical breaches we can imagine under the sun in and making it all one big ball. Consider this a warning against derailing the conversation and seeking to bait others into doing the same.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Fromage - No. We are not derailing this conversation by dragging every other instance of ethical breaches we can imagine under the sun in and making it all one big ball. Consider this a warning against derailing the conversation and seeking to bait others into doing the same.

Thanks. It's ****ing annoying when you are trying to discuss the actual issue at hand and people try to keep diverting from the actual topic by dragging irrelevant rubbish into everything.

 

[weldone]

Hey, there was also a 1 in 100000000 chance...

There's a similar chance of Donald Bradman never existing. Imagine if all those who claim to have seen him playing were lying, if all books and articles that are claimed to be written by that man were written by a cheat, if the passport issued in his name was nothing but a ploy of Australian Government in an attempt to everlasting fame for the country etc etc etc...

Show me a clear proof that he ever existed, lol.

Now you know, why the footage is blur

 

[weldone]

.