The Best of The Rest - NZ, WI, Pak, Bang in tests

[WindieWeathers]

Pakistan a clear best of the rest currently.

They are currently playing the best cricket out of the four teams, and look most likely to prove a constant threat going into the future. The batting is a shambles, but having arguably the strongest bowling attack in the world makes them a very formidable side. I really hope they give both Amin and Ali an extended run in the side. Having a couple of solid middle-order batsman will go a long way to bringing Pakistan to amongst the top sides again.

I find the "bowling attack" line quite ridiculous to be honest!!, how can they be hailed as "the best" when they haven't even faced the top batting side yet? SA's top order is hell to deal with right now, once you get rid of Smith, Amla and Kallis you've still got Devilliers and Prince to deal with, England's is very tough to get through too!!, if Pak's bowling attack proves themselves against those sides then i'd agree with you, but right now i'd say SA's is better,

Also what if their bowling unit has an off day!!.. then what? at least with WI we've got quality in both departments, a balanced team is much more likely to progress than just having a side who only has good pace attack imo.

 

[WindieWeathers]

And why is that if you don't mind me asking? Drawing a test series against Australia is mightily impressive, espeically whilst playing abroad. Pakistan have played three test series away from home in the last 6-8 months, drawing two of them and losing one, until the West Indies start picking up results (even just the odd win) away from home I can't see how you could rate them higher.

Well if fate allowed us to play Aus in England and NZ away with our strongest line-up i'm sure we could nick a few draws too!! ,

The fact is we've been dealt a harsh card, since last December we've played Aus away, SA at home and our next series is Sri Lanka away, with India to come after that!!, give Pak and NZ those run of fixtures and lets see how many "wins and draws" they get out of it!! .

 

[Noble One]

I find the "bowling attack" line quite ridiculous to be honest!!, how can they be hailed as "the best" when they haven't even faced the top batting side yet? SA's top order is hell to deal with right now, once you get rid of Smith, Amla and Kallis you've still got Devilliers and Prince to deal with, England's is very tough to get through too!!, if Pak's bowling attack proves themselves against those sides then i'd agree with you, but right now i'd say SA's is better,

Also what if their bowling unit has an off day!!.. then what? at least with WI we've got quality in both departments, a balanced team is much more likely to progress than just having a side who only has good pace attack imo.

Quality in both departments is abit of a stretch. The West Indies don't have a 'quality' batting line-up, nor do they have a 'quality' pace attack, and the spinner Benn is an honest toiler at best.

Any Test nation would prefer to play West Indies over Pakistan atm.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Quality in both departments is abit of a stretch. The West Indies don't have a 'quality' batting line-up, nor do they have a 'quality' pace attack, and the spinner Benn is an honest toiler at best.

Any Test nation would prefer to play West Indies over Pakistan atm.

Oh look someone is completely rubbishing WI again!! .. so let be get this straight..

Gayle
Barath
Sarwan
Chanders
Samuels/Nash/Deonarine


Has no quality in it whatsoever right?

And

Taylor
Roach
Benn
Bravo
Edwards (when fit)

Is all "garbage" i guess? yeah ok!! .

 

[Howsie]

Well if fate allowed us to play Aus in England and NZ away with our strongest line-up i'm sure we could nick a few draws too!! ,

The fact is we've been dealt a harsh card, since last December we've played Aus away, SA at home and our next series is Sri Lanka away, with India to come after that!!, give Pak and NZ those run of fixtures and lets see how many "wins and draws" they get out of it!! .

So just a whole lot of ifs, but's and maybes then. Fact is (and this actually is a fact) Pakistan have drawn a test series away from home agaisnt New Zealand and are about to do so against Australia. What have the West Indies been busy doing during that time? Losing a test series at home to South Africa (who funnily enough lost to Australia last time they meet each other in a test series).

 

[roseboy64]

Vettori over Bravo EASILY. Tamim over Barath EASILY. Would go for Shakib over Benn as well.

Gayle, Tamim, Sarwan, Chanderpaul. U. Akmal, McCullum(wk), Vettori (c), Shakib, Aamer, Roach, Asif would like better.

If MoYo and Younus makes a comeback, Sarwan and Akmal will give away.

BTW, WI are not as good as you think WindieWeathers! Give respect to other teams as well.

Can't disagree much with this.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So just a whole lot of ifs, but's and maybes then. Fact is (and this actually is a fact) Pakistan have drawn a test series away from home agaisnt New Zealand and are about to do so against Australia. What have the West Indies been busy doing during that time? Losing a test series at home to South Africa (who funnily enough lost to Australia last time they meet each other in a test series).

So drawing in NZ is some sort of "achievement" now? lets compare the last 18 months of both Pak and WI

WI

England at home= Won
England away= Lost
Australia away= Lost (without getting whitewashed)
South Africa at home= Lost (without getting whitewashed)

Pak

Sri Lanka away = lost (without getting whitewashed)
New Zealand away= draw
Australia away= lost by whitewash
Australia on a neutral ground= draw by the looks of it.

Now looking at that it's clear WI have had the tougher fixtures, and though Pak have drawn a few i'd take our win against England over a few draws any day of the week and i'm sure Pak would too!!.

 

[roseboy64]

Ranking points - lowest score being best
Pak = 1 + 2 = 3
NZ = 2+3=5
WI = 1+4=5
Bangers = 3+4=7

Repeating the same analysis for the last 12 months





Ranking last 12 months (lowest score best)
NZ 2+2=4
Pakistan 4+1=5
Bangers 1+4=5
WI 3+3=6

Conclusion - I don't think you can look at the last 12 months as it isn't enough time and it does exclude WI's victory over England. So I think the 24 month analysis is a better indicator of team strength. But the 12 month analysis does show that WI is not on the rise and that Bangers are.

TBF Bangladesh beat a woefully understrength WI team within the last 12 months.

 

[WindieWeathers]

TBF Bangladesh beat a woefully understrength WI team within the last 12 months.

It couldn't even be classed as a "reserve team" it was that bad!! .

 

[Howsie]

So drawing in NZ is some sort of "achievement" now? lets compare the last 18 months of both Pak and WI

WI

England at home= Won
England away= Lost
Australia away= Lost (without getting whitewashed)
South Africa at home= Lost (without getting whitewashed)

Pak

Sri Lanka away = lost (without getting whitewashed)
New Zealand away= draw
Australia away= lost by whitewash
Australia on a neutral ground= draw by the looks of it.

Now looking at that it's clear WI have had the tougher fixtures, and though Pak have drawn a few i'd take our win against England over a few draws any day of the week and i'm sure Pak would too!!.

Funny that you make it a point to remind everyone when Pakistan were whitewashed and the West Indies weren't, (not like it actually matters) but you fail to do so for that series loss to England.

Anyway, as your've just shown us Pakistan have picked up the better results during the past year. And seeing as this thread is about who is currently the best team (not who was the best 18 months ago) I think your've just proven our point

 

[Noble One]

Oh look someone is completely rubbishing WI again!! .. so let be get this straight..

Gayle
Barath
Sarwan
Chanders
Samuels/Nash/Deonarine


Has no quality in it whatsoever right?

And

Taylor
Roach
Benn
Bravo
Edwards (when fit)

Is all "garbage" i guess? yeah ok!! .

West Indies have some good players, but not quality.

Gayle is above average as an opener, but not quality. Barath is a kid who needs to play more than two tests to be considered even close to quality. Sarwan is about on par with most other international class middle-order batsman, but not quality and the other three mentioned would not crack the middle order of any of the top sides, so no not quality.

Jerome Taylor is hardly ever fit, and when he is is hardly top class (a couple of innings aside). Roach is not quality yet, but may be. Benn is workmanlike, not quality. Bravo is useful in both disciples, but quality in neither and Edwards hasn't even played a Test in over a year, not worthy of bringing into discussion.

Good players, but hardly a class outfit. It's not rubbishing the West Indies, it is just the truth of what position they are at. The future might be bright with some promising kids, but until they show anything at Test level, the West Indies are only as strong as there most recent lineup.

 

[WindieWeathers]

West Indies have some good players, but not quality.

Gayle is above average as an opener, but not quality. Barath is a kid who needs to play more than two tests to be considered even close to quality. Sarwan is about on par with most other international class middle-order batsman, but not quality and the other three mentioned would not crack the middle order of any of the top sides, so no not quality.

Jerome Taylor is hardly ever fit, and when he is is hardly top class (a couple of innings aside). Roach is not quality yet, but may be. Benn is workmanlike, not quality. Bravo is useful in both disciples, but quality in neither and Edwards hasn't even played a Test in over a year, not worthy of bringing into discussion.

Good players, but hardly a class outfit. It's not rubbishing the West Indies, it is just the truth of what position they are at. The future might be bright with some promising kids, but until they show anything at Test level, the West Indies are only as strong as there most recent lineup.

And yet the team who you believe is "by far the best" (Pak) haven't won a series in four years and we won one only last year!! .. it's a funny old game!!

And if our batting line up is as average as you suggest what does that make Pak's then? and if our bowling line-up hasn't got any quality what do you think about NZ's bowling unit?.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Funny that you make it a point to remind everyone when Pakistan were whitewashed and the West Indies weren't, (not like it actually matters) but you fail to do so for that series loss to England.

Anyway, as your've just shown us Pakistan have picked up the better results during the past year. And seeing as this thread is about who is currently the best team (not who was the best 18 months ago) I think your've just proven our point

Harping on about "whitewashes" in a two test series is hardly fair is it? none of Pak's whitewashes i manetioned were a two test series, furthermore i see you've completely ignored the standard of the opposition AGAIN!! , like i said i'd rather win one game than draw two thanks, a good team KNOWS HOW TO WIN once in a while!! .

 

[Noble One]

And yet the team who you believe is "by far the best" (Pak) haven't won a series in four years and we won one only last year!! .. it's a funny old game!!

And if our batting line up is as average as you suggest what does that make Pak's then? and if our bolwing line-up hasn't got any quality what do you think about NZ's bowling unit?.

I don't care what Pakistan have done in the past four years, right now they are the best of the rest in Test cricket.

Pakistan batting is not strong, it is terrible, but they still have such a dominant bowling outfit, it will always keep them in the contest. The reference to New Zealand has no basis, I haven’t mentioned the New Zealand team, I'm neither here nor there to who is stronger out of West Indies or New Zealand.

 

[Hurricane]

It couldn't even be classed as a "reserve team" it was that bad!! .

I guess that series wasn't quite in the last 12 months - it was on like July 20th 2009 so it didn't quite make it into the 12 month analysis.

Agreed though that series shouldn't count anyways.

 

[Howsie]

Harping on about "whitewashes" in a two test series is hardly fair is it? none of Pak's whitewashes i manetioned were a two test series, furthermore i see you've completely ignored the standard of the opposition AGAIN!! , like i said i'd rather win one game than draw two thanks, a good team KNOWS HOW TO WIN once in a while!! .

The standard of opposition might've mattered if they were picking up the same results.

 

[WindieWeathers]

I don't care what Pakistan have done in the past four years, right now they are the best of the rest in Test cricket.

Pakistan batting is not strong, it is terrible, but they still have such a dominant bowling outfit, it will always keep them in the contest. The reference to New Zealand has no basis, I haven’t mentioned the New Zealand team, I'm neither here nor there to who is stronger out of West Indies or New Zealand.

Of course "you don't care" about the four years stat because it doesn't comply with your argument, even with their wonderful bowling unit they still aren't winning a series, it's that simple, but yet for some reason "poor little WI" somehow managed to win one against a top side last year!!, i guess we should have done what Pak are doing and just got a draw instead!!. .

 

[Prince EWS]

The standard of opposition might've mattered if they were picking up the same results.

Haha yeah, you don't become a good team just by happening to play good teams if you never win a game. Anyone can keep getting beaten by good teams.

 

[WindieWeathers]

The standard of opposition might've mattered if they were picking up the same results.

To be honest the fact that NZ was on Pak's list means we automatically played the tougher fixtures!! .

 

[Noble One]

Of course "you don't care" about the four years stat because it doesn't comply with your argument, even with their wonderful bowling unit they still aren't winning a series, it's that simple, but yet for some reason "poor little WI" somehow managed to win one against a top side last year!!, i guess we should have done what Pak are doing and just got a draw instead!!. .

Four years ago is completely irrelevant. For Australia we had Warne, Hayden, Gilchrist, Martyn, Gilchrist and McGrath playing for us, it gives zero indication of where Australia are at now.

Right now, Pakistan are the best. Maybe 18 months ago when West Indies had a win, then they could be considered the best. But that isn't the argument.