*Official* South Africa in West Indies

[WindieWeathers]

I would have thought it obvious that if there's problems in the dressing room, the captain is most likely always going to be involved, even if the problem isn't directly with him. If it takes a public shellacking from the captain to get his players into gear, then so be it. It's my understanding that he was justified in his criticisms of Smith/Pollard/Ramdin too, and if it is true that Pollard/Ramdin have picked up their act because of it, how is it a bad thing (if nothing else, it justifies his actions...)? And aren't the Windies better off having Smith on the outer if he's a problem player who is unable to get on with the captain (who is also a comfortably a better player above all else) and the coach is also critical of his behaviour?

As for the latest incident, given that Benn himself has anything but a clean record behavior wise (Gayle or no Gayle) it seems more than anything that it is you trying to dress up Gayle as the villain, when looking at it from a neutral POV it most certainly is not the case.

I'm questioning Gayle for very valid reasons, while he's slagged off others for "not performing" he hasn't lead by example himself, which is why i believe he might be losing some respect in the dressing room, you can't keep hanging your teammates out to dry and expect a squad full of harmony, it just doesn't work like that,

 

[WindieWeathers]

Keep such stuff in the dressing room. Once you agree to step on the field, you also agree to obey and respect the captaincy of the other person regardless of personal differences you have outside it. That's called team spirit. There is no such thing as a perfect captain, everyone will have their differences.

I think at times it's Gayle who should be keeping his views in the dressing room to be honest!! , hanging the dirty washing out in public for all and sundry to see isn't helping matters imo.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Going to the match tomorrow. With the likelihood of rain factoring in Trinidad these days, and the likelihood of WI being rubbish, I'm hoping against hope for a full day of cricket.

You should have saved your money for the Tests Mr M!!, but who knows, maybe our old pal Duckworth will do us another favor!! .

 

[GotSpin]

I'm questioning Gayle for very valid reasons, while he's slagged off others for "not performing" he hasn't lead by example himself, which is why i believe he might be losing some respect in the dressing room, you can't keep hanging your teammates out to dry and expect a squad full of harmony, it just doesn't work like that,

He's not hanging out his teammates to dry in a bad way. He's announcing to every player in the Caribbean that such behaviour will not be tolerated and attempting to establish a new precedent for the future whereby the rubbish behaviour of some of these players will not occur again

Not sure what you're after, but I'd like to see a new positive attitude rather than one characterised by dissent and misbehaviour

 

[WindieWeathers]

He's not hanging out his teammates to dry in a bad way. He's announcing to every player in the Caribbean that such behaviour will not be tolerated and attempting to establish a new precedent for the future whereby the rubbish behaviour of some of these players will not occur again

Not sure what you're after, but I'd like to see a new positive attitude rather than one characterised by dissent and misbehaviour

I want the man to lead by example instead of blaming others all the time, that's all, fair enough sometimes the other players need to hear some home truths but until Gayle actually contributes to the team himself then his ability to lead will always be open to scrutiny.

 

[GotSpin]

I want the man to lead by example instead of blaming others all the time, that's all, fair enough sometimes the other players need to hear some home truths but until Gayle actually contributes to the team himself then his ability to lead will always be open to scrutiny.

It's not just about contribution or even laying the blame for losses.

It's an attempt to bring a change in attitude for West Indies cricket. Like Gibson and the CEO have stated, it's not the quality of windies players that have let the team down, but rather, their attitude and mind set towards playing. It's not just home truths for a few bad boy like Benn, but a desperately needed attitude adjustment for all upcoming players.

 

[Johnners]

He's not "blaming" anyone, he's quite rightly making an example of players who quite obviously have attitude problems. The fact that he's reportedly being backed up by the coach and majority of the players also supports this.

The idea that Gayle doesn't contribute is quite laughable really, I struggle to think of many players in the national team who actually "contribute" anything near as much, let alone more, to the team than he does. He may not be perfect, and I personally think he's somewhat overrated as a batsmen, but have a new found appreciation of just what he does actually bring to the Windies team after the summer just gone.

 

[GotSpin]

He's not "blaming" anyone, he's quite rightly making an example of players who quite obviously have attitude problems. The fact that he's reportedly being backed up by the coach and majority of the players also supports this.

The idea that Gayle doesn't contribute is quite laughable really, I struggle to think of many players in the national team who actually "contribute" anything near as much, let alone more, to the team than he does. He may not be perfect, and I personally think he's somewhat overrated as a batsmen, but have a new found appreciation of just what he does actually bring to the Windies team after the summer just gone.

Indeed. I've found a new respect for Gayle. While he may appear as one cool laid back cat, its clear he deeply cares for West Indies cricket.

 

[Briony]

No Morkel or Steyn, nor Parnell for that matter so Windies should be able to feast on an average attack. Taylor returns for them.

 

[shivfan]

Indeed. I've found a new respect for Gayle. While he may appear as one cool laid back cat, its clear he deeply cares for West Indies cricket.

Agreed....

Indiscipline from any player, Benn or otherwise, cannot be tolerated. It's good to see he was omitted from the team for the final ODI.

As for Darren Bravo, 17 from 47 balls shows that he found it hard work today. He's clearly a player for the future, but I don't think he's ready just yet. I hope the selectors send him to England on the A team tour, and don't push him into the Test team against South Africa, even though there are whispers he could make his Test debut if Sarwan is unfit.

I think that would be wrong. I would prefer to see Deonarine and Dowlin play in this Test series ahead of Lil Bravo....

 

[GotSpin]

WW to throw a fit when you suggest that lil bravo shouldn't play!

But yeah agreed. He needs a ton of consistent runs under his belt on challenging decks. While it may delay his debut for a while, it'll be immeasurably beneficial in the future. I know If i was Gibson I'd rather him to be polishing his game in the A side than rushing him in 'unprepared' just to satisfy those who demand change.

Anyway. Whats the deck playing like?

 

[shivfan]

WW to throw a fit when you suggest that lil bravo shouldn't play!

Not seeing it, unfortunately, because none of my links are working....

But if it's a typical Queens Park Oval pitch, I would think that runs have to be grafted for, and that spinners should get more assistance than pacers. Ordinarily, I would think that this was a pretty good score so far, but the way the WI have been bowling and fielding of late, no total is a safe one.

 

[GotSpin]

Just realised that its on foxtel. Been entertaining viewing actually. Will hit the hay now though

 

[Jayzamann]

Just started watching myself. First thing I see is Boucher with no gloves. Que?

 

[TT Boy]

Learn to bowl at the death, ffs.

 

[WindieWeathers]

He's not "blaming" anyone, he's quite rightly making an example of players who quite obviously have attitude problems. The fact that he's reportedly being backed up by the coach and majority of the players also supports this.

The idea that Gayle doesn't contribute is quite laughable really, I struggle to think of many players in the national team who actually "contribute" anything near as much, let alone more, to the team than he does. He may not be perfect, and I personally think he's somewhat overrated as a batsmen, but have a new found appreciation of just what he does actually bring to the Windies team after the summer just gone.

And which "players" are supporting him then? if you're talking about Gibbo's comments i think that's a feeble argument, Gibbo was always gonna play down the situation but clearly the dust hasn't settled because Benn has been dropped, and i'm talking about Gayles form since the ODI's in Australia, he must have had one good game since then in the T20 cup against India and that's it,

As an outsider you might look at Gayle's past performances with admiration but the fact is i follow this side and his form of late has verged on shambolic to average, if his performances improve in the Test series then fair enough but right now he looks like a man bereft of confidence.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Agreed....

Indiscipline from any player, Benn or otherwise, cannot be tolerated. It's good to see he was omitted from the team for the final ODI.

As for Darren Bravo, 17 from 47 balls shows that he found it hard work today. He's clearly a player for the future, but I don't think he's ready just yet. I hope the selectors send him to England on the A team tour, and don't push him into the Test team against South Africa, even though there are whispers he could make his Test debut if Sarwan is unfit.

I think that would be wrong. I would prefer to see Deonarine and Dowlin play in this Test series ahead of Lil Bravo....

Again Mike you're contradicting yourself by judging him in an ODI game, something you said i shouldn't do where Deonarine is concerned , seems very "reactionary" to me, barely said a word after his last performance but just because he wasn't as impressive today suddenly "he's not ready", his forte is Test cricket, and that's where he should be judged, he proved himself with the A-team and deserves his chance, i know you prefer "dads army" but the fact is Mike the likes of Dowlin aren't good enough, if he was he would've been playing in these ODI's instead of captaining the A-team.

 

[TT Boy]

Windies nearly scored more runs in the last 15 than they did in the first 35. Same old story for South Africa though they should chase this.

 

[shivfan]

Again Mike you're contradicting yourself by judging him in an ODI game, something you said i shouldn't do where Deonarine is concerned , seems very "reactionary" to me, barely said i word after his last performance but just because he wasn't as impressive today suddenly "he's not ready", his forte is Test cricket, and that's where he should be judged, he proved himself with the A-team and deserves his chance, i know you prefer "dads army" but the fact is Mike the likes of Dowlin aren't good enough, if he was he would've been playing in these ODI's instead of captaining the A-team.

It's not a case of 'suddenly'....

I've made the point time and time again that Darren Bravo made runs against the bangladesh reserves, so the next step on the ladder is to play agianst the England and India reserves, not the SA first team. Deonarine and Dowlin deserve to play in the Test series ahead of these two, IMHO.

Dwayne Bravo gets the wicket of Smith!

 

[WindieWeathers]

It's not a case of 'suddenly'....

I've made the point time and time again that Darren Bravo made runs against the bangladesh reserves, so the next step on the ladder is to play agianst the England and India reserves, not the SA first team. Deonarine and Dowlin deserve to play in the Test series ahead of these two, IMHO.

Dwayne Bravo gets the wicket of Smith!

Erm well he also did get 69 against a South Africa A team that contained some of the bowlers that are currently playing in this series Mike!!, so he wasn't just a "flat track bully" like you seem to be implying, i'm not surprised by your position of course because as i've said many times before you're content with the status quo, despite the fact that they keep failing us time and time again, i don't believe Dowlin "deserves" anything, he was shambolic in Australia just like Morton and Hinds was.