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Burgey's Allan Border Appreciation Thread

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I don't have the greatest respect for some of his decisions on the cricket field as a captain that Kapil/pigeon incident comes to mind) but certainly, his contribution to Australian cricket is second to none. I would say a good part of the credit for this "second coming", so to speak, of the Aussie team is due to him...
 

Burgey

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I don't have the greatest respect for some of his decisions on the cricket field as a captain that Kapil/pigeon incident comes to mind) but certainly, his contribution to Australian cricket is second to none. I would say a good part of the credit for this "second coming", so to speak, of the Aussie team is due to him...
Yeah, not his finest moment by any stretch.

You'd hope (and expect) better in this day and age from a captain. I find myself hoping he didn't know the sensitivities involved (not that that's an excuse, but you catch my drift I'm sure).
 

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
How did Border compare with S Waugh since they appear to have played similar roles? I don't recall much of Border you see.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah, not his finest moment by any stretch.

You'd hope (and expect) better in this day and age from a captain. I find myself hoping he didn't know the sensitivities involved (not that that's an excuse, but you catch my drift I'm sure).
yeah.. seems to have mellowed down a LOT post-retirement... :) Love his commentary too, btw.. Would take him over quite a few of the current Channel 9 crowd..
 

Burgey

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How did Border compare with S Waugh since they appear to have played similar roles? I don't recall much of Border you see.
He played less shots than Waugh. Even when Waugh got older, he still had the big drives through cover, down the round, the cut shot and the great flick off the pads, as well as the slog sweep. AB scored 11,000 test runs mostly wth 3 shots - a cover drive, a hook/ pull and a square cut.

Border was not that stodgy when he was younger, but you'd never say he was the most free flowing player, even in his youth. Always thought his most fluent innings were when he played spin - was a really good player of spin, used his feet well. When he played the good quicks it seemed he was like a bloke in a duel with his back to a wall - he seemed to counter punch all the time - maybe it was that characteristic crouch he had, like a fighter slipping a punch then launching one of his own.

He came of age as a skipper, I thought, in the first innings of the 89 Ashes when he came out at about 2-60 odd in the first Test and caned the bowling - think he got about 65-70 odd in quick time - really set the tone for Jones and Waugh to come in and smash the bowling all over the shop. He never truly lost that bit of conservatism to his captaincy though. That was partly because of the piss-poor team he inherited, but I also think the Madras Tie had a lot to do with it. IIRC he declared twice in that match yet went within one run of defeat.

Interesting character. Quite distant I gather, from the players he led. Led by deed rather than word - I got the impression Waugh did both.

Anyway, those are some of my impressions mate, they're by no means definitive, nor are they necessarily spot on for accuracy. Others might well disagree as to the differences between the two men.


yeah.. seems to have mellowed down a LOT post-retirement... :) Love his commentary too, btw.. Would take him over quite a few of the current Channel 9 crowd..
Yeah, he seems to have chilled. Find his monotone a little hard to cop at times, but his insights I think are great, when he's coaxed into providing them.. Certainly better than helf the nine crew atm, for sure.
 
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Burgey

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He just wouldn't fit in at Nine nowadays.
Yeah, absolutely not. Same with Steve Waugh you'd have to say.

I mean, if any of that generation - Waugh, Taylor, Healy, was going to kick on into commentary, then before they all retired I'd have tipped Waugh given his pre-eminence as a player (not that makes him a better comm, just it seems to be the criteria).

But obviously the Chappelli faction has held sway at Nine since, well, forever. His views on Waugh are well known and I think he always rated Border as too conservative a skipper. Mind you, Chappell had Lillee and Thommo - quite easy to be aggressive really!
 

GuyFromLancs

State Vice-Captain
He played less shots than Waugh. Even when Waugh got older, he still had the big drives through cover, down the round, the cut shot and the great flick off the pads, as well as the slog sweep. AB scored 11,000 test runs mostly wth 3 shots - a cover drive, a hook/ pull and a square cut.

Border was not that stodgy when he was younger, but you'd never say he was the most free flowing player, even in his youth. Always thought his most fluent innings were when he played spin - was a really good player of spin, used his feet well. When he played the good quicks it seemed he was like a bloke in a duel with his back to a wall - he seemed to counter punch all the time - maybe it was that characteristic crouch he had, like a fighter slipping a punch then launching one of his own.

He came of age as a skipper, I thought, in the first innings of the 89 Ashes when he came out at about 2-60 odd in the first Test and caned the bowling - think he got about 65-70 odd in quick time - really set the tone for Jones and Waugh to come in and smash the bowling all over the shop. He never truly lost that bit of conservatism to his captaincy though. That was partly because of the piss-poor team he inherited, but I also think the Madras Tie had a lot to do with it. IIRC he declared twice in that match yet went within one run of defeat.

Interesting character. Quite distant I gather, from the players he led. Led by deed rather than word - I got the impression Waugh did both.

Anyway, those are some of my impressions mate, they're by no means definitive, nor are they necessarily spot on for accuracy. Others might well disagree as to the differences between the two men.




Yeah, he seems to have chilled. Find his monotone a little hard to cop at times, but his insights I think are great, when he's coaxed into providing them.. Certainly better than helf the nine crew atm, for sure.
Cheers Burgey. I can always count on you and Richard (where is he?) for a good cricket post, even when I disagree......................... which I often do with Richard.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Right guys, have split the Dravid thread in 2.

Burgey and anyone else, feel free to gush about AB to your heart's content. :)
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
A good post about AB from another forum (Cricforum) ,courtesy Raja Swaminathan-

I have followed the career of Allan Border from the time he started in Test cricket in 1978-79.
That was during the Packer years, when almost all the top cricketers in the world, especially Aussies, went with Packer's World Series Cricket.
Test cricket was badly affected - but this crisis did provide an opportunity for youngsters and hitherto-unknown names to come into the limelight.
A bit like what happened recently for West Indies when Gayle and co walked out.

Border was one of those who came into the side at that time.
England were touring Australia and were dominating. England's team was pretty much intact, they had Boycott, Gooch, Randall, Gower, Botham, Willis etc. Australia had virtually nobody. It was a no-match.

In a wretched series for Australia (and therefore for me), I noticed Allan Border. In one of the Tests he scored 60 and 45. In that series, Australian batting was so pathetic that if a batsman got 30, you had respect for him.

After that, Border continued to be consistent. He became quite a pain in the middle-order for the opposition. I remember when Australia toured India in 1979-80, he got a big hundred (162, I think it was) in the first Test. He was always a prize wicket for the opposition because he put a price on his wicket.

The Packer returnees got back their places in the Aussie side. Many of the "replacements" obviously lost their spots but Border retained his. On merit.

He got a century in each innings (150 and 153, or something like that) in Pakistan. At a time when Pakistan were a very good side. I remember that very well. A lot of people noticed.

He toured the West Indies and did quite well there too.

And then there was that mass retirement in Aussie cricket. Greg Chappell, Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh retired from Test cricket. Suddenly Australia was in a difficult situation.

Border's initial captaincy years were very tough. I found it difficult myself to accept Australia being thrashed by other teams. New Zealand won a series (ok, that was a one-man show, Richard Hadlee). The West Indies won (but that was the norm in those days). But even England won. :(
(India almost won - Border came in the way of what would have been a famous series victory for India in Australia. To date, India has not won a Test series in Australia).

In 1987, when Australian cricket had become laughing stock for the entire world, the World Cup took place in the subcontinent. To this day, people are probably surprised how Australia won that Cup (much like India for the previous Cup. ;-) ). When they beat Pakistan in the semis, I myself could not believe it.

That changed everything. This rag-a-tag team that Border led suddenly became a confident side. Players like Steve Waugh began coming through seriously as quality players.

Still there was scepticism. Border's team that went to England in 1989 was written off before the series as the worst Aussie side to tour England. From the moment Mark Taylor stepped on the field and hammered England for an unforgettable 800-odd runs in that series, it was England which were on the backfoot. I remember a Test where at the end of the first day England were staring at something like 320 for no loss. Steve Waugh came of age as a batsman in that series.

Border's stock as captain, already on the rise after the 1987 World Cup win, now was soaring. He had earned this reputation of being a tough captain and a very gritty player. In the middle-order he was pretty solid. I was reminded of Clive Lloyd. You get past Fredericks, Greenidge, Kalli and Richards - and then you hit Lloyd. No respite. Similarly, you get past Taylor, Boon, Jones, the Waugh brothers - and then you hit Border.

I met Border once briefly in 1989 in Holland. He was here for an exhibition game. He was grumpy - that was how he had been instructed to behave before he left Australia on that England tour (this Holland trip was at the end of that tour). At that time I was not too happy about it but I can understand.

There was another Test (in Sydney where Ravi Shastri got a double hundred) where Border and newcomer/debutant Shane Warne saved a Test for India. I think it was 1992.

Ok, this does not answer your question I guess, Super, but the short answer is he was a very good batsman, one who had seen a lot of defeat and humiliation in his early years (something Aussies are not used to), one who got toughened as a result - and went on to transform a team of average players with low confidence into a winning side with stars.

He deserves all credit for this transformation. When he handed over a side to Mark Taylor, it was rock-solid.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Border's initial captaincy years were very tough. I found it difficult myself to accept Australia being thrashed by other teams. New Zealand won a series (ok, that was a one-man show, Richard Hadlee).
I have to take issue with this.

- Martin Crowe averaged 77 in that series.

So we were a two-man team. :ph34r:
 

Burgey

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I have to take issue with this.

- Martin Crowe averaged 77 in that series.

So we were a two-man team. :ph34r:
That was our first look at Crowe from memory. What a class act. He and Dean Jones had a bet pre-series, however many bucks per run on who would score the most. I think Deano's still paying it off. Crowe reimnded me so much of watching Greg Chappell bat.

John Reid made a big ton in one of the Tests too, iirc.
 
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Top_Cat

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Loved AB. When he was flowing, was good to watch too. Especially if he was really nailing his drives. Mike Hussey has a very similar game.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
John Reid made a big ton in one of the Tests too, iirc.
Yeah, the test at Brisbane - unfortunately the rest of his tour wasn't so flash.

Can trainspotters on here name the Kiwi bowler who took the tenth wicket to stop Hadlee from claiming all 10 wickets in the Aussies' first innings at Brisbane? And who took the catch?
 

Burgey

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Shaun(?) Boock (sp?) - was an offie iirc.

Matthews bombed him to bring up his ton 2nd dig, iirc.

Sad that I'm sitting in Court typing this, and that I can remember all that.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
I remember hearing that Hadlee took the catch.
Yes.

The only test wicket the guy ever took wasn't it?
Yes.

Vaughan Brown iirc.
And yes.

And Burgey, you're thinking of Stephen Boock, a left-arm orthdox (sic).

Back to AB now...

Gritty as they come, old AB. I liked him solely because (IIRC) he used Duncan Fearnley, which my batting hero MD Crowe used for a long time.
 

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