GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Erm, no, you said that it wasn't a handball. Don't bother backtracking now.
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*Official* English Football Season 2009-2010
- Thread starter cover drive man
- Start date
roseboy64
Cricket Web Content Updater
Yeah well I'm not. It's the same thing. Not going to be a handball call in that situation so it's not a handball?
roseboy64
Cricket Web Content Updater
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
I barely follow football, but even I know that the ball hitting his arm is handball. And again, I barely follow football, but God, I love it when Man U lose. Their fans angrily froth like no other.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tranmere Rovers fans can get a bit belligerent too
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Present company excepted - obviously
Smudge
Hall of Fame Member
If it makes you feel any better, every time I play my ****ty football management game, I always play as Tranmere...
Unfortunately, I'm not very good, so they constantly lose.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Stout fellow. Always loved your work.
I barely follow football, but even I know that the ball hitting his arm is handball. And again, I barely follow football, but God, I love it when Man U lose. Their fans angrily froth like no other.
Jarquis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Mr Barnes? Is that you?
Matteh
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Watched Man Utd vs Chelsea in the pub followed by Burnley vs Man City and just got back.
Drogba, i called the offside, replay showed it was miles off.
Macheda, i called the handball, replay showed it was.
By this I can conclude that a drunk person is a better referee than Mike Dean
As for Burnley, christ. 3 down after 7 minutes? Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't pick up any more points these season, although that's not a surprise when they chose Brian Laws as a manager really. Every time Citeh attacked, they just ghosted through the midfield, there was no marking, no positional sense at all but credit to Citeh for putting them away so easily away from home.
Drogba, i called the offside, replay showed it was miles off.
Macheda, i called the handball, replay showed it was.
By this I can conclude that a drunk person is a better referee than Mike Dean
As for Burnley, christ. 3 down after 7 minutes? Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't pick up any more points these season, although that's not a surprise when they chose Brian Laws as a manager really. Every time Citeh attacked, they just ghosted through the midfield, there was no marking, no positional sense at all but credit to Citeh for putting them away so easily away from home.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Haha, well at least it's realistic!
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Agreed. Might as well just have said "**** it; we'll see you in The Championship, then." Honestly, genuinely baffling decision. Bloke's crap & a massive client to boot.
Neil Pickup
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Oh yeah, silly me. Macheda didn't shout "I'm going to handle it". How on earth do referees decide if it's100% deliberate?
Two ways: one - gaining an advantage, two - having your arms out beyond your body.
Saying that, I gave a goal in what I imagine was a similar situation to the Macheda one (which I haven't seen yet admittedly) earlier this term - defender hammers a clearance at striker a yard away, hits the striker on his arm (by his side), falls for him and he slots it past the keeper.
Neil Pickup
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Further to this, USSF guidance:
12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING
The offense known as “handling the ball” involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player’s hand or arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). “Deliberate contact” means that the player could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player’s arms were not in a normal playing position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is subsequent action to direct or control the ball. The fact that a player may benefit from the ball contacting the hand does not transform the otherwise accidental event into an infringement. A player infringes the Law regarding handling the ball even if direct contact is avoided by holding something in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.).
NOTE: In most cases in the Laws of the Game, the words “touch,” “play,” and “make contact with” mean the same thing. This is not true in the case of deliberate handling, where the touch, play, or contact by the offending player must be planned and deliberate.
and in the Directive on Handling the Ball:
Handling The Ball
2009 Referee Program Directives
February 2, 2009
Keys to Identifying Handling the Ball
There are several key criteria referees should use to determine whether contact between a player’s hand/arm and the ball constitutes a foul for handling. Many of the criteria have formed the foundation of referee identification of handling offenses for years. Despite this foundation, handling criteria continue to be applied inconsistently.
Going forward, additional criteria will need to be considered by officials in determining if contact by the ball with the hand/arm is, in fact, a handling offense. For example: Did the player make himself bigger?
The following 3 criteria should be the primary factors considered by the referee:
1. Making yourself bigger
This refers to the placement of the arm(s)/hand(s) of the defending player at the time the ball is played by the opponent. Should an arm/hand be in a position that takes away space from the team with the ball and the ball contacts the arm/hand, the referee should interpret this contact as handling. Referees should interpret this action as the defender “deliberately” putting his arm/hand in a position in order to reduce the options of the opponent (like spreading your arms wide to take away the passing lane of an attacker).
• Does the defender use his hand/arm as a barrier?
• Does the defender use his hand/arm to take away space and/or the
passing lane from the opponent?
• Does the defender use his hand/arm to occupy more space by extending
his reach or extending the ability of his body to play the ball thereby benefiting from the extension(s)?
2. Is the arm or hand in an “unnatural position?” Is the arm or hand in a position that is not normal or natural for a player performing the task at hand.
3. Did the player“ benefit?” In considering all the “signs” described above, the referee should also consider the result of the player’s (usually a defender) action. Did the defender’s action (handling of the ball) deny an opportunity (for example, a pass or shot on goal) that would have otherwise been available to the opponent? Did the offending player gain an unfair tactical advantage from contact with the hand/arm which enabled him to retain possession? In other words: Did the player benefit by putting his hand/arm in an “unnatural position?” The referee needs to be able to quickly calculate the result of the player’s action to determine whether an offence has been committed.
After applying the aforementioned criteria, if the referee is still uncertain as to whether handling the ball has occurred, the referee should then incorporate the following two criteria as part of his decision making process:
4. Reaction Time The less time a defender has to react, the less likely there has been a handling offense. For example, a ball struck from a close distance, or a very fast moving ball, or a ball coming in from a direction which is outside the defender’s view gives little or no time for the defender’s reaction to be “deliberate.” The referee must take into consideration whether the defender’s reaction is purely instinctive, taken to protect sensitive areas of the body as the face. Distance is a factor in determining “reaction time.” The further the ball, the more reaction time a play may have.
5. Hand/arm to ball Referees must be ready to judge whether the player moved his arm to the ball thereby initiating the contact. Additionally, the referee should evaluate whether the player deliberately readjusted his body position to block the ball thus intentionally playing the ball with his hand/arm.
12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING
The offense known as “handling the ball” involves deliberate contact with the ball by a player’s hand or arm (including fingertips, upper arm, or outer shoulder). “Deliberate contact” means that the player could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player’s arms were not in a normal playing position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage. Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is subsequent action to direct or control the ball. The fact that a player may benefit from the ball contacting the hand does not transform the otherwise accidental event into an infringement. A player infringes the Law regarding handling the ball even if direct contact is avoided by holding something in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.).
NOTE: In most cases in the Laws of the Game, the words “touch,” “play,” and “make contact with” mean the same thing. This is not true in the case of deliberate handling, where the touch, play, or contact by the offending player must be planned and deliberate.
and in the Directive on Handling the Ball:
Handling The Ball
2009 Referee Program Directives
February 2, 2009
Keys to Identifying Handling the Ball
There are several key criteria referees should use to determine whether contact between a player’s hand/arm and the ball constitutes a foul for handling. Many of the criteria have formed the foundation of referee identification of handling offenses for years. Despite this foundation, handling criteria continue to be applied inconsistently.
Going forward, additional criteria will need to be considered by officials in determining if contact by the ball with the hand/arm is, in fact, a handling offense. For example: Did the player make himself bigger?
The following 3 criteria should be the primary factors considered by the referee:
1. Making yourself bigger
This refers to the placement of the arm(s)/hand(s) of the defending player at the time the ball is played by the opponent. Should an arm/hand be in a position that takes away space from the team with the ball and the ball contacts the arm/hand, the referee should interpret this contact as handling. Referees should interpret this action as the defender “deliberately” putting his arm/hand in a position in order to reduce the options of the opponent (like spreading your arms wide to take away the passing lane of an attacker).
• Does the defender use his hand/arm as a barrier?
• Does the defender use his hand/arm to take away space and/or the
passing lane from the opponent?
• Does the defender use his hand/arm to occupy more space by extending
his reach or extending the ability of his body to play the ball thereby benefiting from the extension(s)?
2. Is the arm or hand in an “unnatural position?” Is the arm or hand in a position that is not normal or natural for a player performing the task at hand.
3. Did the player“ benefit?” In considering all the “signs” described above, the referee should also consider the result of the player’s (usually a defender) action. Did the defender’s action (handling of the ball) deny an opportunity (for example, a pass or shot on goal) that would have otherwise been available to the opponent? Did the offending player gain an unfair tactical advantage from contact with the hand/arm which enabled him to retain possession? In other words: Did the player benefit by putting his hand/arm in an “unnatural position?” The referee needs to be able to quickly calculate the result of the player’s action to determine whether an offence has been committed.
After applying the aforementioned criteria, if the referee is still uncertain as to whether handling the ball has occurred, the referee should then incorporate the following two criteria as part of his decision making process:
4. Reaction Time The less time a defender has to react, the less likely there has been a handling offense. For example, a ball struck from a close distance, or a very fast moving ball, or a ball coming in from a direction which is outside the defender’s view gives little or no time for the defender’s reaction to be “deliberate.” The referee must take into consideration whether the defender’s reaction is purely instinctive, taken to protect sensitive areas of the body as the face. Distance is a factor in determining “reaction time.” The further the ball, the more reaction time a play may have.
5. Hand/arm to ball Referees must be ready to judge whether the player moved his arm to the ball thereby initiating the contact. Additionally, the referee should evaluate whether the player deliberately readjusted his body position to block the ball thus intentionally playing the ball with his hand/arm.
