Jacques Kallis - Still Underrated?

[Maximus0723]

Man, I never hear about him when talking about all time greats. IMO, he deserves to be in top 15. To me, as player, he is better then Lara, Ponting, et al. He has shown that he can play on seaming tracks (record in SA) and spinning tracks (record in subcontinent).

He is also very good with the ball. Has > then 500 international wickets.

Yes, I know he is lot better against bad teams but so are many other greats but this guy is also amazing with the ball.

Batting--Test
Batting--ODI

Bowling--Test
Bowling--ODI

 

[vic_orthdox]

Interesting to compare to thoughts of about 4 or 5 years ago.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/19612-jacques-kallis-most-underrated-allrounder.html

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Had he been around 40 years ago and achieved the same standards he would have had songs written about him. In today's game there are a lot of very ordinary batsman with very high averages and he sits in that pack.

 

[archie mac]

Just seems to miss that touch of brilliance, but still a class act

 

[Furball]

Had he been around 40 years ago and achieved the same standards he would have had songs written about him. In today's game there are a lot of very ordinary batsman with very high averages and he sits in that pack.

I don't think he gets anywhere near enough credit for his home record.

 

[Himannv]

I think he's a decent bowler, but I have a tendency of looking only at his batting as he's really phenomenal in that aspect of his game. Its hard to see where to place him, even in terms of South Africe alone. Is he better than Dudley Nourse, Greame Pollock and Barry Richards? Its hard to say for me, but one thing is sure, he's right up there with them as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ikki]

Just seems to miss that touch of brilliance, but still a class act

Not sure what else he has to do to have that touch of brilliance.

 

[Richard]

I think he's a decent bowler, but I have a tendency of looking only at his batting as he's really phenomenal in that aspect of his game. Its hard to see where to place him, even in terms of South Africe alone. Is he better than Dudley Nourse, Greame Pollock and Barry Richards? Its hard to say for me, but one thing is sure, he's right up there with them as far as I'm concerned.

Barry Richards no chance (not to say he's miles behind him, just that there's clearly division between the two); might be close to Pollock and Nourse Jnr. though.

Must be said that Kallis' performances in the last year have gone some way toward assuaging some of the doubts I've always held about him. Nonetheless, he rarely made all that many difficult runs from 2001/02 onwards.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Had he been around 40 years ago and achieved the same standards he would have had songs written about him. In today's game there are a lot of very ordinary batsman with very high averages and he sits in that pack.

Yeah, despite the fact that he looks allot more convincing on footage then 90% of the batsman that have come before him, faces faster bowlers and has played on bowler friendly South African wickets for the majority of his career.

 

[Richard]

He hasn't. SAfrican decks for a fair amount of Kallis' career have had very little in them for seamers (or spinners). He also doesn't face faster bowlers than anyone in the 1980s, 1970s, 1960s or 1950s did.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

He hasn't. SAfrican decks for a fair amount of Kallis' career have had very little in them for seamers (or spinners). He also doesn't face faster bowlers than anyone in the 1980s, 1970s, 1960s or 1950s did.

Apart from sticky wickets, South African pitches over the past decade haven't been any less bowler friendly then any other pitches from past generations. From what I'm seen on footage, there is hardly much difference at all from pitches before 2000 and pitches of today. Batsman are just allot more technically better nowadays.

Pretty sure he did face faster bowlers considering that only 3 or 4 of the world's fastest bowlers in the 1979 Worlds Fastest Bowler competition could touch 150kph and yet more then a handful of bowlers in Australia alone can touch 150kph.

 

[Richard]

Apart from sticky wickets, South African pitches over the past decade haven't been any less bowler friendly then any other pitches from past generations. From what I'm seen on footage, there is hardly much difference at all from pitches before 2000 and pitches of today. Batsman are just allot more technically better nowadays.

From what I've seen on footage and\or read (which is just about every Test pitch in South Africa in the last decade or more) there were very few seam-friendly decks from 2001/02 to 2005/06. There have been a few once again from 2006/07 onwards, but still, not really as many as I'd like there to be, and as there were up to 2000/01.

And the sticky wicket is a thing of the long past. Pitches in South Africa have been being covered for many decades.

Pretty sure he did face faster bowlers considering that only 3 or 4 of the world's fastest bowlers in the 1979 Worlds Fastest Bowler competition could touch 150kph and yet more then a handful of bowlers in Australia alone can touch 150kph.

That competition is completely meaningless. Methods of speed measurement were different then to what they are now. There is no way one can compre the speeds of bowlers in the 1970s (or any other time) to post-1998, because timing technology is different \ unreliable.

 

[Zinzan]

Barry Richards no chance (not to say he's miles behind him, just that there's clearly division between the two); might be close to Pollock and Nourse Jnr. though.

Interesting take, I've always considered G Pollock to be marginally ahead of B Richards..even if by just a smidgen.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

From what I've seen on footage and\or read (which is just about every Test pitch in South Africa in the last decade or more) there were very few seam-friendly decks from 2001/02 to 2005/06. There have been a few once again from 2006/07 onwards, but still, not really as many as I'd like there to be, and as there were up to 2000/01.

Majority of the Tests that I've watched in South Africa over the past decade have had a pit innit for the past decade and I definately wouldn't classify them as flat. Of course, I've given examples in the past where I've seen movement off the pitch and swing through the air, but you've completely written it off.

And the sticky wicket is a thing of the long past. Pitches in South Africa have been being covered for many decades.

That competition is completely meaningless. Methods of speed measurement were different then to what they are now. There is no way one can compre the speeds of bowlers in the 1970s (or any other time) to post-1998, because timing technology is different \ unreliable.

But they corrected it, so it is relevant.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

I like Kallis. I believe that as a cricketer he is one of the best role models an aspiring player can have. His batsmanship is based on concentration, not overreaching himself and sticking to the textbook shots such as playing the straight bat. His bowling is good line and length stuff and his physical power (also something that mere mortals can work on) elevates him above the norm in both areas.

However, he is not a God in any area, if that's what you mean. But combine all he brings to a team and he is a great player.

 

[fredfertang]

I think his being underrated is simply by virtue of his ruthless efficiency - if he put in more of the sort of eye catching performances that appeal to the neutral then he'd probably be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Sobers, Miller, Botham, Hadlee, Imran and Kapil - as it is while, as a cricketer pure and simple he probably is the equal of them, or perhaps even better, he's well behind in the charisma stakes

 

[vcs]

I think his being underrated is simply by virtue of his ruthless efficiency - if he put in more of the sort of eye catching performances that appeal to the neutral then he'd probably be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Sobers, Miller, Botham, Hadlee, Imran and Kapil - as it is while, as a cricketer pure and simple he probably is the equal of them, or perhaps even better, he's well behind in the charisma stakes

I find it very hard to explain why I don't enjoy watching a batsman with his accomplishments... I even like watching Dravid, but my bias as an Indian might explain that. I actually prefer watching Kallis bowl rather than bat.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

I think his being underrated is simply by virtue of his ruthless efficiency - if he put in more of the sort of eye catching performances that appeal to the neutral then he'd probably be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Sobers, Miller, Botham, Hadlee, Imran and Kapil - as it is while, as a cricketer pure and simple he probably is the equal of them, or perhaps even better, he's well behind in the charisma stakes

This. You wouldn't pay to watch him bat or bowl, but that doesn't mean he can't be a brilliant cricketer.

Also the whole pitch-thing is fairly irrelevant in my books, he can only beat and play on what's put in front of him. To still be bowling as he is (has gone under a bit of a renaissance IMO since a couple of years back when he seemed to be throwing the towel in) and maintaining his performance with the bat outweighs any flat track argument.

 

[Jayzamann]

I think his being underrated is simply by virtue of his ruthless efficiency - if he put in more of the sort of eye catching performances that appeal to the neutral then he'd probably be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Sobers, Miller, Botham, Hadlee, Imran and Kapil - as it is while, as a cricketer pure and simple he probably is the equal of them, or perhaps even better, he's well behind in the charisma stakes

That is odd considering his wife. You'd think an international sportsman with those sorts of stats and assets would be on the tip of everyone's tongue...

... and there's also this window to the future;

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Kallis has the best looking missus out of all of the allrounders. Therefore he wins.