England Since 1990 XI

[GuyFromLancs]

Just thought I'd throw an England XI since roughly I started watching the game.

1. Gooch
2. Trescothick
3. Vaughan
4. Pieterson
5. Thorpe
6. Stewart
7. Flintoff
8. Swann
9. Gough
10. Caddick
11. Hoggard

Atherton just edged out. Stewart may have to be moved elsewhere in the order. Despite only playing a small number of tests I still rate Swann above Illy, Tuffers, Croft, Giles, Salesbury and Monty. Hoggard is a shock choice but as part of this 4 man attack I think he would work well.

Any thoughts? Even better, does any Aussie have their own version?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I still rate Swann above Illy, Tuffers, Croft, Giles, Salesbury and Monty.

That's not in any doubt. However, Peter Such was the best Pom spin bowler in this period.

 

[Zinzan]

Just thought I'd throw an England XI since roughly I started watching the game.

1. Gooch
2. Trescothick
3. Vaughan
4. Pieterson
5. Thorpe
6. Stewart
7. Flintoff
8. Swann
9. Gough
10. Caddick
11. Hoggard

Atherton just edged out. Stewart may have to be moved elsewhere in the order. Despite only playing a small number of tests I still rate Swann above Illy, Tuffers, Croft, Giles, Salesbury and Monty. Hoggard is a shock choice but as part of this 4 man attack I think he would work well.

Any thoughts? Even better, does any Aussie have their own version?

Interesting selection, harsh on Fraser & Strauss not to mention a couple of others if you looks & the stats since 1990 though..

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

 

[zaremba]

Just thought I'd throw an England XI since roughly I started watching the game.

1. Gooch
2. Trescothick
3. Vaughan
4. Pieterson
5. Thorpe
6. Stewart
7. Flintoff
8. Swann
9. Gough
10. Caddick
11. Hoggard

Atherton just edged out. Stewart may have to be moved elsewhere in the order. Despite only playing a small number of tests I still rate Swann above Illy, Tuffers, Croft, Giles, Salesbury and Monty. Hoggard is a shock choice but as part of this 4 man attack I think he would work well.

Any thoughts? Even better, does any Aussie have their own version?

Yeah I'd be happy with that team, except Fraser probably ahead of Hoggy though. I like the look of a Gooch / Trescothick opening partnership a lot.

It's amazing how Swann's emergence makes for a much more balanced team when you do this sort of exercise. Such and Tufnell were good bowlers but not necessarily any better than Swann (and perhaps not as likely to succeed at Test level given that he clearly has the mental credentials as well as the talent) but the amount extra that Swann offers with the bat and in the field just takes him into a different class.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Yeah I'd be happy with that team, except Fraser probably ahead of Hoggy though. I like the look of a Gooch / Trescothick opening partnership a lot.

It's amazing how Swann's emergence makes for a much more balanced team when you do this sort of exercise. Such and Tufnell were good bowlers but not necessarily any better than Swann (and perhaps not as likely to succeed at Test level given that he clearly has the mental credentials as well as the talent) but the amount extra that Swann offers with the bat and in the field just takes him into a different class.

Yep, Flintoff and especially Swann mean that the team has real batting depth to go with the 4 quicks that I have sworn by for England since 05.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Interesting selection, harsh on Fraser & Strauss not to mention a couple of others if you looks & the stats since 1990 though..

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Fair points. I never really took to Fraser though. I didn't like his style which is quite shallow of me I know. Strauss comes close, especially after a superb Ashes 09 with bat and captaincy. If he was to replace anyone for me it would be Vaughan because the lure of two heavyweights opening is too much.

 

[NasserFan207]

I'd switch Vaughan with Nasser.

 

[zaremba]

Fair points. I never really took to Fraser though. I didn't like his style which is quite shallow of me I know. Strauss comes close, especially after a superb Ashes 09 with bat and captaincy. If he was to replace anyone for me it would be Vaughan because the lure of two heavyweights opening is too much.

Depending on the opposition I'd consider having Smith ahead of either Vaughan or Strauss. If he's not going to be facing a quality spinner, and particularly if he's going to be facing a hostile pace attack, I'd want the Judge to deliver some Justice

 

[grecian]

1. Gooch
2. Trescothick
3. Smith
4. Kp
5. Thorpe
6. Stewart
7. Flintoff
8. Swann
9. Gough
10. Fraser
11. Jones

Yeah, like the look of the OPs side, just a couple of tweaks, but I'd be relatively happy with his side. I've gone for Jones for the difference he gave us in that two tests he was fit, probably wrong. Dean Headley also deserves a mention for a short time, another one curtailed by injury, who was better then Caddick and Hoggy IMHO.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Depending on the opposition I'd consider having Smith ahead of either Vaughan or Strauss. If he's not going to be facing a quality spinner, and particularly if he's going to be facing a hostile pace attack, I'd want the Judge to deliver some Justice

He completely slipped my mind.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

I'd have Hoggy as part of a 4 man seam attack because it would relieve the pure wicket taking burden on him and he could be used more when the ball swung. And Hoggy, for a time, was best swing bowler in the world.

The selectors perhaps disagreed. When he was dumped by them he really was dumped.

 

[NasserFan207]

Sorry, but Fraser has to be there ahead of Hoggard. Best England bowler of this period for my money.

 

[iamdavid]

The Aussie in me would probably like to see them wheel out -

1.M Lathwell*
2.I Ward
3.A Habib
4.U Afzaal
5.R Clarke
6.R Blakey+
7.G Hamilton
8.J Ormond
9.N Foster
10.R Dawson
11.M McGague

But seriously-

1.M Atherton
2.G Gooch
3.R Smith
4.G Thorpe
5.K Pieterson
6.A Stewart+
7.A Flintoff
8.G Swann
9.D Gough
10.A Fraser
11.A Caddick

Only one I had to give a second thought to was Smith over 2002/03 Michael Vaughan..

 

[King Pietersen]

1. Andrew Strauss
2. Graham Gooch
3. Robin Smith
4. Kevin Pietersen
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Alec Stewart+
7. Andrew Flintoff
8. Graeme Swann
9. Darren Gough
10. Angus Fraser
11. Andrew Caddick

 

[DaRick]

My opinion:
- GA Gooch (a batsman who proved himself over three decades, even though he was rarely at his best against Australia - thanks partially to Alderman - and shouldn't have gone to Australia in '94/95)
- AJ Strauss (better technique and record than Trescothick and has shown an ability to lead by example - Atherton did too, but he was badly affected by injury)
- RA Smith (his ineptitude against spin is overstated slightly, but there is less chance of him facing spin batting at #3 - and he has more opportunity to punish the pacers)
- KP Pietersen (was at his best at #4 and an easy choice)
- GP Thorpe (was at his best at #5 and an easy choice)
- AJ Stewart (thought about playing him as a pure batsman but decided not to - he is a fine wicketkeeper by himself and including Jack Russell leaves the bowling attack a bit thinner than I'd like)
- A Flintoff (during his prime, of course)
- GP Swann (although he has a poor technique against the short delivery, he is still a good lower-order batsman and a quality offspinner, though a bit overrated - because he isn't Ashley Giles)
- D Gough (a given)
- AR Caddick (could've included Dom Cork, I suppose, but Caddick was more versatile and did not fade away after an excellent start)
- ARC Fraser (could've included Hoggard because he is more versatile than Fraser ever was, but Fraser has a better record - I guess under English conditions, I'd take Fraser)

 

[bagapath]

openers: gooch/strauss
middle order: vaughan/pietersen/thorpe/collingwood/
all-rounders:stewart/flintoff
bowlers:gough/caddick/fraser

12th man: swann

it is a bit batting heavy and there is no spinner. but i will live with this four man pace attack and hope that eventually swann will be good enough to be in the team, may be in place of collingwood or fraser

 

[Burgey]

Sorry, but Fraser has to be there ahead of Hoggard. Best England bowler of this period for my money.

This.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

My thoughts:

Graham Gooch
Alastair Cook
Paul Pritchard
John Stephenson
Nasser Hussain (*)
Ronnie Irani (3/4)
Derek Pringle (4/5)
James Foster (+)
Neil Foster (1)
Mark Ilott (2)
Peter Such (5/3)

And Ravi Bopara still can't get a look in. Sad, but true.

 

[Pothas]

1. Andrew Strauss
2. Graham Gooch
3. Robin Smith
4. Kevin Pietersen
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Alec Stewart+
7. Andrew Flintoff
8. Graeme Swann
9. Darren Gough
10. Angus Fraser
11. Andrew Caddick

Think that is exactly what I would go with.

 

[vcs]

I haven't watched much of Swann but is he really that much better than Panesar used to be at the start of his career? What are his long-term prospects like?