*Official* Road to the 2010/11 Ashes

[Richard]

Oh so youth cricket counts now? Mark Waugh was a manufactured middle-order batter then.

Really? Waugh Jnr. opened at youth level? Never knew that.

(BTW when I'm talking about youth cricket I'm meaning that of a reasonable age - 16-19 sort of thing. Not under-9s.)

 

[Richard]

I think bowling is the most interesting part because I do genuinely believe that Broad could do some serious damage over there, we'll see though.

Interesting you think that - there's unlikely to be any significant swing, and to date the only serious damage Broad has done has been when the ball has swung. He's not a bowler who can cut the ball off the pitch (and there's unlikely to be any real seam in the decks either).

 

[four_or_six]

I think I'm more worried about the Aussie openers than their middle order, they just seem to have the ability to really make an impact in a way ours don't. Like at Headingly last summer, when after bowling us out cheaply Watson came out and smashed however many off that first over. Somehow if that was Cook or Strauss I'd imagine a maiden or a couple of nudged singles, and it would have felt different.

 

[GuyFromLancs]

Regardless of any bias of GuyFromLancs or most other posters, clearly there's no sense in taking Streetwise posts seriously because his\her attitude is simply Australian > not-Australian. That's just a general pointer.

No intended bias from Moi. I am more than happy to admit it when Australia have better side than us. I was happy to admit that 5-0 was inevitable in 06/07 and I firmly believed that would be the result.

However, today I believe the Aussies are a shadow of that team. Things may change in the next 9 months, or they may not.

 

[GIMH]

Interesting you think that - there's unlikely to be any significant swing, and to date the only serious damage Broad has done has been when the ball has swung. He's not a bowler who can cut the ball off the pitch (and there's unlikely to be any real seam in the decks either).

Disagree. Broad relies on line and length much more than he relies on the ball hooping round corners. Bear in mind how much better Broad has been than Anderson in the games where he has made a difference.

When Broad puts the ball in the right area, he looks absolutely top-class. Swing isn't the big factor for him.

 

[NUFAN]

The openers used before Watson and Katich (Hayden, Jaques, Hughes) aren't manufactured openers - well, one could argue that Jaques is actually but I don't know his full story so don't want to comment too favourably.

Certainly Jaques is far more of an opener than either Katich or Watson, neither of whom are first-choice openers for their states even. They're mirroring Wavell Hinds, except that both are technically far more sound than he is.

What makes you so sure that Watson isn't the first choice opener for his state. Give me one example where he's batted at 3 or lower.

 

[pasag]

No intended bias from Moi. I am more than happy to admit it when Australia have better side than us. I was happy to admit that 5-0 was inevitable in 06/07 and I firmly believed that would be the result.

However, today I believe the Aussies are a shadow of that team. Things may change in the next 9 months, or they may not.

Every side in world cricket is a shadow of that side. But it has no relation to anything. We could be 10 times as crap but still the number 1 side in the world. You hear it before every series in Australia where visiting captains go on about how they'll beat us because we have no more McWarne but at the end of the day it's irrelevant, just put both teams side by side and you'll have your answer.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, but the only time we played you without McWarne, we beat you, there's your answer
(god you're gonna hate me by the time November rolls around)

 

[GotSpin]

Yeah, but the only time we played you without McWarne, we beat you, there's your answer
(god you're gonna hate me by the time November rolls around)

What was the series score last time the ashes was here?

 

[pasag]

Yeah, but the only time we played you without McWarne, we beat you, there's your answer
(god you're gonna hate me by the time November rolls around)

Never

 

[Nate]

Maybe

 

[GIMH]

What was the series score last time the ashes was here?

Pretty sure McWarne were playing?

 

[GotSpin]

Pretty sure McWarne were playing?

It's my only comeback. Don't take this away from me!

 

[Richard]

I think I'm more worried about the Aussie openers than their middle order, they just seem to have the ability to really make an impact in a way ours don't. Like at Headingly last summer, when after bowling us out cheaply Watson came out and smashed however many off that first over. Somehow if that was Cook or Strauss I'd imagine a maiden or a couple of nudged singles, and it would have felt different.

Would depend. If it was a load of short crap that both Strauss and Cook thrive on, I'd bank on both to have a decent shot at smashing it, like Watson did when the England bowlers bowled to his strength.

England may or may not be able to exploit the fact that neither of those who are likely to open for Australia in The Ashes (or at worst the first part of it) are proper openers. But if they can't do that, they're likely to be in BIG trouble against the middle-order, all of whom (yes, North included) are class players.

 

[GIMH]

Still prone to collapses though. It's pretty clear that our best chance at winning the series is to make sure that we pile the runs on in the match(es) when they do collapse, and that Onions is there at the end in the ones where we don't.

 

[Woodster]

I think I'm more worried about the Aussie openers than their middle order, they just seem to have the ability to really make an impact in a way ours don't. Like at Headingly last summer, when after bowling us out cheaply Watson came out and smashed however many off that first over. Somehow if that was Cook or Strauss I'd imagine a maiden or a couple of nudged singles, and it would have felt different.

Tbf, the way Strauss got after the SA attack at Durban recently went some way to giving us the momentum to go on and get that vital victory. But that is not a particularly frequent occurrence. Watson does give their openers the edge in terms of positive intent from the off, but don't think he and Katich are ahead of Cook and Strauss in any great way.

 

[Jarquis]

Maybe

 

[NUFAN]

Very confident in Australian conditions. Reckon Bollinger will have a big summer.

 

[Richard]

Disagree. Broad relies on line and length much more than he relies on the ball hooping round corners. Bear in mind how much better Broad has been than Anderson in the games where he has made a difference.

When Broad puts the ball in the right area, he looks absolutely top-class. Swing isn't the big factor for him.

No bowler has ever taken decent hauls of wickets consistently just by bowling with good accuracy. Yes, Broad does sometimes have the ability to do that (also still sprays it plenty regularly enough), in fact always has done, as long as I can remember him. But it isn't a wicket-taking tool in itself - it's a run-restricting tool and one that enhances, greatly, the potency of any wicket-taking weapons a bowler possesses (as high pace does) but isn't a wicket-taking tool in itself.

If Broad gets his lines right, bowls a full length, and the ball swings, he's deadly, like we saw at The Oval. But there are several reasons why we've only seen that on tiny numbers of occasions - one he routinely bowls too short, two the ball doesn't swing that much outside England at the current time (only recently that it's started swinging properly again in England anyway), three he's still prone to spraying it.

In the Caribbean in 2009, for instance, Broad bowled generally decent areas on mostly flat decks and emerged with some amount of credit, given his extremely poor previous performances. But even against some pretty moderate batting, he hardly dominated. On more flat decks against really good batting like the Australians', I don't see him emerging with remotely good figures even if he bowls as he did in West Indies.

 

[Richard]

What makes you so sure that Watson isn't the first choice opener for his state. Give me one example where he's batted at 3 or lower.

Virtually every innings of his career other than those couple in, what was it, 2007/08, where he tried opening and scored about 2 runs in 4 innings' or something.