*Official* West Indies In Australia

[Top_Cat]

Especially chasing 320 ffs. Get him in at 5 - game's up by the time he gets a hit.

Dire. Reckon he's the real deal tbh. Looks a very canny young cricketer, especially with the ball, has bowled some good stuff.

Only criticism has been that just about every dismissal of his in this country has been going long and straight. Sure he smacks them awfully hard square and certainly hits some long bombs but you'd back yourself to get several chances at mid-on too. Doesn't seem to matter whether he's 5 or 55 and probably wouldn't matter if he was 255.

That said, he certainly seems to be playing with a bit more restraint as time goes on. Really has come on heaps. Aside from the short ball, seems pretty sound technically. Agree that his bowling is pretty smart too. From the striker's end, he must not look like much but he just keeps getting wickets. Seemingly a lot caught behind the wicket too which is weird considering the 'pace' he bowls at.....

Seems a genuine legend too. All staff at SACA adore him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Fletcher is certainly doing well with the bat in the current domestic season, he's scored 294 runs thus far and will be batting on 50 not out when Leewards vs Winwards resumes later today, is he that bad with the gloves though?

Interestingly enough, in the same tournament where Ramdin has played 2 less innings than him, scored 46 more runs, averaged more than twice as much, and scored 2 more hundreds than him. Also it's not an OD tournament. Fletcher has never shown prowess in the shorter form, and has always been more likely to play a stupid shot than actually score meaningful runs.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

the difference between us and Australia is that they are actually winning games so they don't really need to rush their players through

And why do you think that is? It's because they don't generally pick players before they're ready. Therefore the players perform better, the team performs better, and there's more competition for players in future.

In short, Hing is right.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Interestingly enough, in the same tournament where Ramdin has played 2 less innings than him, scored 46 more runs, averaged more than twice as much, and scored 2 more hundreds than him. Also it's not an OD tournament. Fletcher has never shown prowess in the shorter form, and has always been more likely to play a stupid shot than actually score meaningful runs.

Like i said on the Gibson thread Fletcher got 80 today so he's very close if not level with Ramdin's run total, lets also remember Andre is around three years younger than Ramdin and can only get better with more experience, Andre may not have scored two 100's but he's got over 70 three times which isn't bad either, i just think Ramdin needs some competition as he looks too relaxed in his position right now imo which is why he isn't learning from his mistakes when he bats.

 

[WindieWeathers]

And why do you think that is? It's because they don't generally pick players before they're ready. Therefore the players perform better, the team performs better, and there's more competition for players in future.

In short, Hing is right.

The main people in their side are well into their 30's like Ponting, Hussey, Lee, Katich etc so they've had no need to rush anyone through, but what happens when Ponting goes? what happens when Clark and Haddin hang them up? are the Aussies gonna replace them with world class players? i very much doubt it, our situation is very different from their's as i believe we've actually got some potentially world class players in most positions coming through, when you're dealing with top class youngsters bringing them through early isn't that much of a risk imo, like Roach and Pollard has proven.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Like i said on the Gibson thread Fletcher got 80 today so he's very close if not level with Ramdin's run total, lets also remember Andre is around three years younger than Ramdin and can only get better with more experience, Andre may not have scored two 100's but he's got over 70 three times which isn't bad either, i just think Ramdin needs some competition as he looks too relaxed in his position right now imo which is why he isn't learning from his mistakes when he bats.

Um, no he's not. A top score of 80 is nowhere near a top score of 160odd not out, or whatever Ramdin scored. The fact is that Fletcher is a very inconsistent batsman who often gives his wicket away stupidly, and is nowhere near to Ramdin's level with the gloves. And players don't necessarily get better with experience if they're just not very good players. Either way there's no way Fletcher has done anything worthy of international caps.

As always, I'd love it if Fletcher proved me wrong. But that's just it. He has to prove something first.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The main people in their side are well into their 30's like Ponting, Hussey, Lee, Katich etc so they've had no need to rush anyone through

And they're the main people because they weren't rushed into the side. How are you not getting that? They've performed well at Test level because, for the most part, they were picked when they were ready. And those are picked too early - Lee and Clarke come to mind - had to be dropped and recalled before they became world class players. Again reinforcing why patience is almost always the best policy.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Um, no he's not. A top score of 80 is nowhere near a top score of 160odd not out, or whatever Ramdin scored. The fact is that Fletcher is a very inconsistent batsman who often gives his wicket away stupidly, and is nowhere near to Ramdin's level with the gloves. And players don't necessarily get better with experience if they're just not very good players. Either way there's no way Fletcher has done anything worthy of international caps.

As always, I'd love it if Fletcher proved me wrong. But that's just it. He has to prove something first.

Erm YES HE IS, look at the 'most runs' tally tomorrow if it's updated and you'll see Fletcher has well over 300 runs which is where Ramdin was when he left for Australia, and Andre's glove work isn't as bad as you suggest imo, he can easily improve in that area, everything you said about Andre's batting is exactly what we see with Ramdin whenever he puts on the WI shirt so the difference is the same really.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Erm YES HE IS, look at the 'most runs' tally tomorrow if it's updated and you'll see Fletcher has well over 300 runs which is where Ramdin was when he left for Australia, and Andre's glove work isn't as bad as you suggest imo, he can easily improve in that area, everything you said about Andre's batting is exactly what we see with Ramdin whenever he puts on the WI shirt so the difference is the same really.

Yep, except that as stated earlier, and casually ignored by you, Ramdin has played less innings for more runs. So in every way Ramdin's performance is superior. Ramdin's scored 113.33 runs per match, whereas Fletcher has 73.50, and that's with Ramdin playing 2 less innings. Ramdin has vastly outplayed Fletcher in the same weak tournament.

As for glovework, it's not so much how poor Flecther's is (though it is very ordinary) but how much better Ramdin's is. Ramdin is presently one of the best glovemen in the world. Fletcher isn't even up to Patrick Browne's standard.

 

[WindieWeathers]

And they're the main people because they weren't rushed into the side. How are you not getting that? They've performed well at Test level because, for the most part, they were picked when they were ready. And those are picked too early - Lee and Clarke come to mind - had to be dropped and recalled before they became world class players. Again reinforcing why patience is almost always the best policy.

And why aren't you getting that SOME youngsters CAN come through early like Roach and Barath have shown? let me make this clear to you again that i'm not calling for the kids to be chucked in against South Africa, i'm saying they should maybe play a few ODI'S against Zimbabwe and see how they go, tbh Mr M we are clearly NEVER gonna agree on this subject so i don't see the point in debating it again.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Roach and Barath haven't proven they're good enough to play Test cricket yet. Worse players have done better than they have thus far. And as has been repeatedly stated, Barath had considerably more successful experience than virtually everyone you advocate being selected. Experience means nothing if you don't perform too.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yep, except that as stated earlier, and casually ignored by you, Ramdin has played less innings for more runs. So in every way Ramdin's performance is superior. Ramdin's scored 113.33 runs per match, whereas Fletcher has 73.50, and that's with Ramdin playing 2 less innings. Ramdin has vastly outplayed Fletcher in the same weak tournament.

As for glovework, it's not so much how poor Flecther's is (though it is very ordinary) but how much better Ramdin's is. Ramdin is presently one of the best glovemen in the world. Fletcher isn't even up to Patrick Browne's standard.

I didn't "ignore" it i just stated the facts that Fletcher has got close to Ramdin's run total, was Ramdin scoring over 300 runs when he was 22? i'd like to see the link if he did, as a wicketkeeper i haven't got anything bad to say about him but the truth is he'll always fail us with the bat, Andre has clearly improved this year with the bat and if his glove work also improves then that will only mean good news for WI, although clearly he'll never be good enough in your eyes just like Kantasingh.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Roach and Barath haven't proven they're good enough to play Test cricket yet. Worse players have done better than they have thus far. And as has been repeatedly stated, Barath had considerably more successful experience than virtually everyone you advocate being selected. Experience means nothing if you don't perform too.

Yeah Barath getting a 100 on his debut in Australia hasn't proven anything at all, ok Mr M . Like i said we ain't ever agreeing on this subject.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

You don't pick a player averaging, at best, 40s (without any hundreds) in a weak competition, on flat pitches. Especially not ahead of a more mature batsman, who averages twices as much (with hundreds) in that same competition. Ramdin was picked too early too, but there weren't any other viable wicketkeeping options at the time. Evidently he's only just matured as a batsman.

But go strong, bro.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yeah Barath getting a 100 on his debut in Australia hasn't proven anything at all, ok Mr M . Like i said we ain't ever agreeing on this subject.

Yep. Ask Lou Vincent what that proves.

Don't look now, but he did it against a stronger bowling attack too.

 

[WindieWeathers]

You don't pick a player averaging, at best, 40s (without any hundreds) in a weak competition, on flat pitches. Especially not ahead of a more mature batsman, who averages twices as much (with hundreds) in that same competition. Ramdin was picked too early too, but there weren't any other viable wicketkeeping options at the time. Evidently he's only just matured as a batsman.

But go strong, bro.

My point is FLETCHER IS GETTING BETTER with the bat, why are you finding that hard to comprehend? he clearly is, so if he gets 100 in his next game then what are you gonna say? and for the millionth time you've distorted my words again , i'm not saying Fletcher should replace Ramdin right now, i'm saying i HOPE Fletcher can put some pressure on Ramdin, there's a big difference.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Yep. Ask Lou Vincent what that proves.

Don't look now, but he did it against a stronger bowling attack too.

He wasn't 19 when he did it.

 

[roseboy64]

Dwayne Smith scored a century on debut against South Africa.

 

[Top_Cat]

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cri...reat-debut-mean-great-player.html#post2091315

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[GotSpin]

My point is FLETCHER IS GETTING BETTER with the bat, why are you finding that hard to comprehend? he clearly is, so if he gets 100 in his next game then what are you gonna say? and for the millionth time you've distorted my words again , i'm not saying Fletcher should replace Ramdin right now, i'm saying i HOPE Fletcher can put some pressure on Ramdin, there's a big difference.

Is there any remote chance of Fletcher being able to compete with Ramdin in the gloves department? If not, I don't think his spot should be in any danger and I don't see the need for putting pressure on him. Keeping abilities should always be far more important than the ability to add a few extra runs every now and again with the bat.