Can Ponting overtake Tendulkar?

[Sir Alex]

Edit. Tendulkar scored 5 hundreds in 99. Not in 97 as I mentioned above.

 

[silentstriker]

I don't care if he is scoring a hundred every innings, he is a completely different player. Still very good, but not Sachin of mid-late nineties.

 

[Sir Alex]

Peak is when I thought he was the best. Around 1998, he was at the top of his game in every way.

If you look at Tendulkar now, and Tendulkar of 1998, I wouldn't bat an eyelid regarding which one I'd want for my team.

Interesting. I actually think today we have players like Gautam and Sehwag to play the dasher role that Tendulkar used to play in the 90s. What the team needs from Tendulkar today is risk free accumulation of runs and solidity in the wake of Dravid's decline, both which he has given fully. The fact that India did well despite having a sub par Dravid for more than two years, is testimony to it. That is why today's Tendulkar is actually better than peak Tendulkar from a team pov.

 

[silentstriker]

No, the team is better from a team PoV. Tendulkar is not. To say a 1998 Tendulkar would offer less value to the team is ridiculously wrong.

If they were offered a 1990s Tendulkar in exchange for this one, they'd take it and laugh at you for offering such a 'choice'.

 

[Sir Alex]

Averaged 49-50 in his first season, as a 17 year-old, playing in by far the weakest cricketing state at that time, Tasmania.

Thank you, but is that really enough to merit a test debut? What about the latter seasons? Tendulkar's figures were nothing less than phenomenal in his first year of test cricket yet he took about a year or so to really become accustomed to it.

 

[silentstriker]

I don't think this is going to be a productive argument. If you watched both 1998 and 2010 Tendulkar and have to think about which one is better, I'll never convince you.

 

[Sir Alex]

No, the team is better from a team PoV. Tendulkar is not. To say a 1998 Tendulkar would offer less value to the team is ridiculously wrong.

If they were offered a 1990s Tendulkar in exchange for this one, they'd take it and laugh at you for offering such a 'choice'.

Well finally it boils down to the runs scored does it not? Tendulkar of today is adding roughly the same amount of runs per match as he used to in his 'peak'. The fact that he adds those runs at much less risk than he used to only adds to the value of those runs. However brilliant he used to be in the nineties there was always that 'uncertainty' factor about him whenever he came out to bat. That uncertainty is at it's lowest these days.

 

[silentstriker]

Well finally it boils down to the runs scored does it not?

No.

 

[Sir Alex]

I don't think this is going to be a productive argument. If you watched both 1998 and 2010 Tendulkar and have to think about which one is better, I'll never convince you.

Yes. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[AaronK]

if he did.. he doesn't deserve it... such record only suits a great batsman like Tendulkar to keep.. Pointing may go down as one of the best..but I don't think he will be as good as sachin..

 

[Sir Alex]

if he did.. he doesn't deserve it... such record only suits a great batsman like Tendulkar to keep.. Pointing may go down as one of the best..but I don't think he will be as good as sachin..

Interesting. Why he shouldn't be deserving if he broke the record? I'd personally regard him as even better than Tendulkar because he'd have had an unbelievable run then against all odds not to mention a more complete record.

 

[silentstriker]

Not going to get into Ponting vs. Tendulkar, but deserve doesn't come into it. If you achieve it, you deserve it. Kapil Dev broke Richard Hadlee's record. Dev was nowhere near the bowler Hadlee was.

No one made those runs for him or took wickets for Kapil. He did it year after year. You get the record, and you did it the hard way, and you deserve it.

 

[Dano.85]

Not going to get into Ponting vs. Tendulkar, but deserve doesn't come into it. If you achieve it, you deserve it. Kapil Dev broke Richard Hadlee's record. Dev was nowhere near the bowler Hadlee was.

No one made those runs for him or took wickets for Kapil. He did it year after year. You get the record, and you did it the hard way, and you deserve it.

Well said, totally agree.

 

[HGB1892]

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

 

[Sir Alex]

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

He averages 58 in Australia against much better attacks than Ponting had to. He averages 62 in England which is much better than Ponting does. Now if you're saying these two countries produce only flat pitches then I am precam. Also Ponting's inability to buy a run on the 'flattest pitches' of the world show his frailty more than greatness.

Also the guy has scored more tons away than at home, so that argument is also pretty fail.

 

[silentstriker]

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

Tendulkar (away): 26 out of 47 centuries, average of 55.5
Ponting (away): 16 out of 39 centuries, average 49.2

 

[Furball]

If Shane Warne had emerged as a force as he did c. 1993/94 2-3 years ago, and Australia were gearing up for a tour of India, there's no way that Tendulkar now would do the same as he did in 1998.

 

[Migara]

If Shane Warne had emerged as a force as he did c. 1993/94 2-3 years ago, and Australia were gearing up for a tour of India, there's no way that Tendulkar now would do the same as he did in 1998.

Nah, Warne would have still been smashed out of the attack by Sidhu and Azhar, who were exactly the ones who wrote the script about how Warne should be played even in later series.

 

[Furball]

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

Less than the number of tons Ponting has scored on ridiculous flat pitches in Australia.

Tendulkar has scored over half of his tons away from home, averages close to 60 in Australia and over 60 in England, and averages almost exactly outside India what he averages in India.

If Indian pitches were so easy, Ponting would have a better average in India as well.

The "all subcontinental pitches are flat and easy to score runs on" argument is an extremely lazy one.

 

[AaronK]

You all remember M. Yousuf breaking Viv Richards record of making the most runs in a year..To me the discussion of comparing Sachin to Pointing goes the same direction as Sir Viv vs. yousuf.. Is yousuf as good or even better than Sir Viv considering that he has a better average too.. the answer is noo.. yess yousuf made all those runs in a year but he didn't face quality bowling.. he didn't bat tanciously as Sir Viv.. and most importantly he will never have a counter attack style that Sir Viv had.. as a cricket fan, I enjoy those batsman who single handedly dominate the bowlers..Sir Viv used to do that to any bowler that he faced.. Has yousuf ever done this in his whole career.. maybe in a few ocations... but certianly he didn't make a career out of it..

Ponting may have been very lucky that he didn't face the likes of McGrath and Shane Warne.. He didn't face guys like Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar and Donald at their peak..Sachin faced all of these bowlers at their peak.. he scored alot of runs of them.. So if Ponting would have faced these bowlers and still managed to keep the record he has now.. then he deserved to overtake Sachin's record..