Ball tampering, does every team do it?

[Richard]

Well, I don't say they "should" walk, I say they're cheating by not walking, because they're making a deliberate attempt to get away with something which they know the rules say means they're out.

However I feel that the rule which says that if a batsman nicks\gloves one and the wicketkeeper catches it the batsman is thus out is the right rule for the game; on the other hand I feel that the rule which debars the use of dust on the cricket-ball, never mind the one that rules that saliva and sweat which have been "untampered" (whatever TF that amounts to - they're bodily fluids and thus every piece of application of one is going to be slightly different) are legal and those which have been "tampered" (by suncream or sugary sweets) illegal, are stupid rules and that the game would be better to amend them.

Thus I feel that one form of rule-breaking is legit and actually helps the good of the game, while the other is not and actually doesn't help it at all.

 

[Streetwise]

Well, I don't say they "should" walk, I say they're cheating by not walking, because they're making a deliberate attempt to get away with something which they know the rules say means they're out.

However I feel that the rule which says that if a batsman nicks\gloves one and the wicketkeeper catches the batsman is thus out it is the right rule for the game; on the other hand I feel that the rule which debars the use of dust on the cricket-ball, never mind the one that rules that saliva and sweat which have been "untampered" (whatever TF that amounts to - they're bodily fluids and thus every piece of application of one is going to be slightly different) are legal and those which have been "tampered" (by suncream or sugary sweets) illegal, are stupid rules and that the game would be better to amend them.

Thus I feel that one form of rule-breaking is legit and actually helps the good of the game, while the other is not and actually doesn't help it at all.

If a batsman nicks the ball and the umpire does not give it out but the batsman walks is he not disputing the umpires decsion.

 

[Burgey]

Well, I don't say they "should" walk, I say they're cheating by not walking, because they're making a deliberate attempt to get away with something which they know the rules say means they're out.

However I feel that the rule which says that if a batsman nicks\gloves one and the wicketkeeper catches it the batsman is thus out is the right rule for the game; on the other hand I feel that the rule which debars the use of dust on the cricket-ball, never mind the one that rules that saliva and sweat which have been "untampered" (whatever TF that amounts to - they're bodily fluids and thus every piece of application of one is going to be slightly different) are legal and those which have been "tampered" (by suncream or sugary sweets) illegal, are stupid rules and that the game would be better to amend them.

Thus I feel that one form of rule-breaking is legit and actually helps the good of the game, while the other is not and actually doesn't help it at all.

But that's not relevant mate.

The rule that says I have to drive at 50 kph down a steep incline on my way home from the commuter car park to my place isn't one I agree with either. Realistically, everyone knows it should be a 70 kph zone. But the rule's there, and if I get caught (forgive the pun) flouting it, then I wear the consequences.

It would be a strange old game if one could simply choose to flout the rules one doesn't like and only obey the ones we do. Actually, it would probably be a lot like life .

 

[Top_Cat]

As for the thread question, tbh, can barely think of a bowler at any decent level I've ever known or played with who didn't alter the ball's condition either occasionally or frequently.

 

[Richard]

If a batsman nicks the ball and the umpire does not give it out but the batsman walks is he not disputing the umpires decsion.

And? Where did I say he was? I said he's making a deliberate attempt to not be out when the laws say he is out. If a batsman's bat or glove (when in contect with the bat) touches the ball and the ball then carries to a fielder who takes control of it without it bouncing first then the batsman is out. Yet when the contact is not obvious, some batsmen attempt to get away with it. When the contact is obvious, no batsman ever attempts to get away with it.

 

[Burgey]

As for the thread question, tbh, can barely think of a bowler at any decent level I've ever known or played with who didn't alter the ball's condition either occasionally or frequently.

Yeah, much easier the lower the level you play too....

 

[Richard]

But that's not relevant mate.

The rule that says I have to drive at 50 kph down a steep incline on my way home from the commuter car park to my place isn't one I agree with either. Realistically, everyone knows it should be a 70 kph zone. But the rule's there, and if I get caught (forgive the pun) flouting it, then I wear the consequences.

Yup - but the point is that the chances of you being caught for that exist; there is no rule which says that a batsman must walk if he nicks one (at most levels of course there is no way to prove if a nick has or hasn't taken place so any such rule would be impossible to enforce) and there is no form of anything which can prevent a fielder from enhancing the shining quality of his saliva or sweat with a bit of sugar or suncream.

The point I'm making is about which rules can be flouted without the chance of detection and which can't. And your original post comparing what I said about saliva\sweat-enhancement to walking is a bit of a non-sequiteur - as I say, they're different matters. One concerns law and not morality; the other concerns morality and not law. Not walking after nicking one is equivalent to adultery - immoral, but not really possible to make illegal. Using saliva\sweat-enhancers would be comparable to parking on a double-yellow line for a day when you knew beyond all question that the Police and TWs were all busy elsewhere - illegal, but not really immoral and with the chance of detection at zero.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, much easier the lower the level you play too....

More prevalent in bowlers at higher levels, tbh. Ball tampering is a skill like any other so obviously those playing at higher levels will be better at it.

 

[Burgey]

More prevalent in bowlers at higher levels, tbh. Ball tampering is a skill like any other so obviously those playing at higher levels will be better at it.

Well they have to be more subtle about it than I do, I mean than at other levels. I guess..

 

[Burgey]

Yup - but the point is that the chances of you being caught for that exist; there is no rule which says that a batsman must walk if he nicks one (at most levels of course there is no way to prove if a nick has or hasn't taken place so any such rule would be impossible to enforce) and there is no form of anything which can prevent a fielder from enhancing the shining quality of his saliva or sweat with a bit of sugar or suncream.

The point I'm making is about which rules can be flouted without the chance of detection and which can't. And your original post comparing what I said about saliva\sweat-enhancement to walking is a bit of a non-sequiteur - as I say, they're different matters. One concerns law and not morality; the other concerns morality and not law. Not walking after nicking one is equivalent to adultery - immoral, but not really possible to make illegal. Using saliva\sweat-enhancers would be comparable to parking on a double-yellow line for a day when you knew beyond all question that the Police and TWs were all busy elsewhere - illegal, but not really immoral and with the chance of detection at zero.

You must have double yellow lines in different places to us - over here they're in the middle of the road, or they used to be - now they're double-white lines... Probably not the best place to park

 

[Top_Cat]

Well they have to be more subtle about it than I do, I mean than at other levels. I guess..

Yeah but that's the point, really; ball-tampering is common at lower levels of the game and it's not going to disappear because guys are better at the game. If anything, those who are better, coming up against better opposition and just generally being more competitive, are more apt to be looking for ways to get ahead in my experience.

Ideals about sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct tend to go quickly by the wayside the first time you come up against blokes good enough to smash you for a run-a-ball double and rub your nose in it.

 

[Goughy]

Interesting. I have only played with 1 guy who doctored the ball. Certainly was never common, certainly frowned upon and unacceptable. Appears a different game in Aus as it was the same in SA as in England

 

[Richard]

You must have double yellow lines in different places to us - over here they're in the middle of the road, or they used to be - now they're double-white lines... Probably not the best place to park

Yeah over here double-yellow-line means absolutely-no-parking and they're at the side of the road. I forgot they're the centreline in Aus - over here that's a dotted white line.

Thus

 

[Top_Cat]

tbh Goughy, all due respect and all that, you don't strike me as one likely to keep your views on sportsmanship to yourself. If I was on your team and regularly lifted the seam, the last person I'd let in on it would be you.

 

[Goughy]

tbh Goughy, all due respect and all that, you don't strike me as one likely to keep your views on sportsmanship to yourself. If I was on your team and regularly lifted the seam, the last person I'd let in on it would be you.

I talk to people and they dont know how to do it. I do, I can doctor a ball in a number of different ways. I just didnt unless in the nets. I know the people I played with a) found it unacceptable and wouldnt occur to them to do it and b) wouldnt know how. Was never part of the culture.

I know a lot of tricks with the ball but captains frowned upon it and teammates didnt understand it and wouldnt allow it.

 

[Top_Cat]

I talk to people and they dont know how to do it. I do, I can doctor a ball in a number of different ways. I just didnt unless in the nets. I know the people I played with a) found it unacceptable and wouldnt occur to them to do it and b) wouldnt know how. Was never part of the culture.

Considering the levels of cricket you've played, I find that stunning.

No wonder South Africa never beat OZ in the 90's.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Personally I've never done it and I don't know anyone who did in my team. I'm not saying no-one did it, but I never saw it happen and nobody approached me to try to give me some 'assistance' in ball tampering methods. Can't ever recall seeing someone doing it in the nets either.

Am surprised as a bowler that nobody even talked about it really. Wouldn't know where to start myself.

And if all teams are tampering with the ball then some of them are doing a piss poor job of it!

 

[Top_Cat]

Personally I've never done it and I don't know anyone who did in my team. I'm not saying no-one did it, but I never saw it happen and nobody approached me to try to give me some 'assistance' in ball tampering methods. Can't ever recall seeing someone doing it in the nets either.

Am surprised as a bowler that nobody even talked about it really. Wouldn't know where to start myself.

And if all teams are tampering with the ball then some of them are doing a piss poor job of it!

Haha, wow. Must be an Adelaide grade cricket thing then because every team I played in it was a fairly active topic.

In our defence, Adelaide district pitches often have aircraft almost landing on them. They're ****ing heart-breakers. Uni Oval is the worst for false hope, generally so green, you can't see it from boundary line. Then the first ball is bowled and goes through at knee height to the 'keeper and you know there's a long day ahead....

 

[Richard]

The way SOC's talked about it in the past it wouldn't matter what you did to the balls they use in Brisbane grades, they'd still do sod-all.

 

[Burgey]

Personally I've never done it and I don't know anyone who did in my team. I'm not saying no-one did it, but I never saw it happen and nobody approached me to try to give me some 'assistance' in ball tampering methods. Can't ever recall seeing someone doing it in the nets either.

Am surprised as a bowler that nobody even talked about it really. Wouldn't know where to start myself.

And if all teams are tampering with the ball then some of them are doing a piss poor job of it!

Really? If we get a rain dealy at our home ground and the ball's wet, I always pop it in the pie oven. Bastard dries like a ****ing house brick, and the seam stands up incredibly. And there's a technical argument the ball hasn't been tampered with - it's no more an aid to drying it than using a towel (at least that's my defence should I ever get called on it).

Did it when I was coaching a kids' team one day (they were properly horrible and we were going to lose outright anyway) - threw the ball to one of the lads and he burned his hand on it - had to sit out the rest of the game. But the first ball post-break hit the deck and seamed about 18 inches. We took 5 for 2 after the break, made the kids feel a bit better about themselves.