Pak Players ignored by IPL - this is how democracy works

[mohammad16]

You believe wrong. Name the teams in the Pakistani FC competition again? I'd like to know when HBL, PIA, KRL, NBP, ZTBL etc etc became states in Pakistan.



That Laxman is a poor captain isn't new news. No one's claiming he did well. However you don't openly criticize your captain in that fashion, especially when you yourself weren't a success. He was paid to play a particular role in the team, and thats what he should have stuck to doing, instead of coming up with excuses. Afridi had his fair share of chances, he didn't utilize them to the best of his ability. Whats the big deal with a 30 odd? Laxman had a 30 odd opening too. Puts it in perspective.



I sure know the Chargers didn't miss him last year.

homeboy at the end of the day it matters nothing what you think, the simple fact is all of India adores Shahid Khan Afridi and would love him to play for their adopted team, just like Kolkata embraced Akhtar even though hes the biggest nightmare of all in the dressing room. 99.9% of them would snatch Afridi in a heartbeat over all other international players and even some local Indian ones, he is that much of a draw and entertainer. So continue hating...

 

[AaronK]

You believe wrong. Name the teams in the Pakistani FC competition again? I'd like to know when HBL, PIA, KRL, NBP, ZTBL etc etc became states in Pakistan..

I got my opinion and u have urs..so feel free to go nuts with urs.. inaddition, I never thought wining for those teams that u have mentioned up there mattered anyways.. i see domastic cricket as a competation that grooms cricketers and get them ready for international side.. nothing more..

That Laxman is a poor captain isn't new news. No one's claiming he did well. However you don't openly criticize your captain in that fashion, especially when you yourself weren't a success. He was paid to play a particular role in the team, and thats what he should have stuck to doing, instead of coming up with excuses. Afridi had his fair share of chances, he didn't utilize them to the best of his ability. Whats the big deal with a 30 odd? Laxman had a 30 odd opening too. Puts it in perspective.
..

interesting.. i thought he criticized him after the IPL season.. not during the season..

this goes again to my argument.. if Afridi would have played for his country.. he may not have done that..this shows how much he cares about this whole crap that they call IPL teams..

he scored some quick runs..but afridi's main priority has been his bowling since 2005.. i thought u were rating him unfairly and purely as a batsman..

I sure know the Chargers didn't miss him last year.

last time i checked.. he didn't show interest in playing with them anyways..something good came out of not participating.. he improved his game enough that single handedly won the world cup for his team..

 

[Black_Warrior]

Do you really think Indian Government would have given the go ahead for a tour when we faced one of our worst terrorist attacks? And please don't give this **** about BCCI not honoring commitment stuff etc. Between 2004 and 2007, BCCI scheduled several tournaments and test series out of the way with Pakistan which actually resulted in the PCB being a profit making board atleast. So come out of the victim mode, PCB, BCCI has helped you more than any board ever in their history.

Sir Alex,
its mutual. Pakistan toured India in 99 despite threats from Shiv Sena. That helped BCCI. If BCCI helped Pakistan in 2004 and 2006 by touring, PCB returned the favour in 2005 and 2007. BCCI is not World Vision that is running a charity show and going out of their way to help Pakistan. We are in business together..get over yourself mate.

Winning an ICL season matters little to me, primarily because it featured players with exception of Pakistanis and a few foreigners like Bond etc, second or third level cricketers in India, and over the hill foreign players. As I said before, I do not read much into the two T20 WC performances, including that of India's in 07. I showed with the example of IPL 2 and IPL 3 how easily fortunes are reversed in T20 tournament. Of course I still believe there were some players like Akmal, Tanveer, Gul who deserved a contract but were they really "that hot" to warrant them being picked at the associated risk of being denied entry by India/Pakistan due to political purposes? I think not. There is no visible "gulf" between the talents of the aforementioned players and available non Pakistani players to justify such risks. In short, IPL doesn't think that highly of Pakistani players as you or fellow Pakistanis think so. Anyways Afridi never deserved a contract following his stupid attitude towards IPL (Big bash is better than IPL, anti Laxman comments, all reeked of the spoilt princess attitude).

Sir, once again you have repeated yourself and I have to repeat myself aswell so forgive me. If the best Pakistani T20 players were not hot enough to be picked despite the associated risk of being denied entry, then that should have been made clear earlier by the authorities that
Dear Sir,
Due to reasons
1,
2
and 3,.
we are unable to accommodate your players. We apologise for that. We look forward to a prosperous association in the future.

Thank you

Since that wasnt the case, the least you can do, is to come out of you jingoistic shell and acknowledge that the authorities were irresponsible.

I would have been disappointed but not outraged at all. Even though under the circumstances it is laughable to even think about Pakistan having a PPL featuring International players, assuming for once that really happened, and this so called snub occured, I don't believe it would have been such a big issue. As I said before there is nothing political to it, and was purely a business reason. If PPL franchises thought Indian players were not worth their rupees, well, I disagree, but good on them. That is their belief.

As to the fact of being shortlisted and yet not considered for selection, remember that among the Australians who had been shortlisted such prominent names like Hughes, Bollinger, etc did not receive contracts and guys like Martyn got it purely because they had inside contacts with the franchises that picked them.

I know PPL under the present circumstances is laughable. I was talking about a hypothetical situation. Try to read next time before you decide to respond.
But you have made a start by acknowledging this atleast

So if you think IPL selections are strictly based on merit, you couldn't be further from the truth. It is a bloody corporate circus involving all dirty corporate politics, favoritism, and decisions completely weighed on money scale.

Thank you Sir..It makes me feel hopeful to see that people are able to see beyond regional lines and call a spade a spade.

Just like you would disagree with PPL franchises in that hypothetical situation, I disagree with the assessment of the IPL franchises..and my initial reaction was not at all against IPL or BCCI or Modi. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I expect from money hungry businessmen and petty politicians whether Indian or Pakistani or from anywhere in the world. My initial ire was against the Pakistani players for not realizing it and allowing themselves to be treated in this way. It was when someone objected to my low opinion of politicians and businessmen and tried to defend and justify their cheap act did I have to make those responses.

 

[Sir Alex]

Sir Alex,
its mutual. Pakistan toured India in 99 despite threats from Shiv Sena. That helped BCCI. If BCCI helped Pakistan in 2004 and 2006 by touring, PCB returned the favour in 2005 and 2007. BCCI is not World Vision that is running a charity show and going out of their way to help Pakistan. We are in business together..get over yourself mate.

Haha Pakistani toured India for the Asian Test trophy which was a joint effort. And lol at the comments of returning the favor in 05 and 07, because such invites have to happen from the Indian Board. You are saying 05 and 07 were charity? PCB benefited equally as well. Lastly, whether or not Pakistan repaid it nor not, you cannot deny India lent the helping hand when PCB was almost bankrupt in 2004.

Sir, once again you have repeated yourself and I have to repeat myself aswell so forgive me. If the best Pakistani T20 players were not hot enough to be picked despite the associated risk of being denied entry, then that should have been made clear earlier by the authorities that
Dear Sir,
Due to reasons
1,
2
and 3,.
we are unable to accommodate your players. We apologise for that. We look forward to a prosperous association in the future.

Thank you

Since that wasnt the case, the least you can do, is to come out of you jingoistic shell and acknowledge that the authorities were irresponsible.

There is no need for apologies and stuff considering it is purely a domestic tournament and Pakistan is contributing zilch to it's running. I however agree the whole episode could have been handled better by the IPL by taking a stance earlier itself.

I know PPL under the present circumstances is laughable. I was talking about a hypothetical situation. Try to read next time before you decide to respond.
But you have made a start by acknowledging this atleast

Oh ok.. suggest you put a disclaimer : Please don't reply to it next time when posting in message boards like this.

Thank you Sir..It makes me feel hopeful to see that people are able to see beyond regional lines and call a spade a spade.

Just like you would disagree with PPL franchises in that hypothetical situation, I disagree with the assessment of the IPL franchises..and my initial reaction was not at all against IPL or BCCI or Modi. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I expect from money hungry businessmen and petty politicians whether Indian or Pakistani or from anywhere in the world. My initial ire was against the Pakistani players for not realizing it and allowing themselves to be treated in this way. It was when someone objected to my low opinion of politicians and businessmen and tried to defend and justify their cheap act did I have to make those responses.

I don't see much progress whatsoever in our discussions. let's agree to disagree on whatever we don't agree upon. Fair enough.

 

[Black_Warrior]

a good and reasonable piece on this issue from the Dawn

Anger sans reason
By I.A. Rehman
Thursday, 28 Jan, 2010

One wonders as to how long it will take India and Pakistan to start regretting their part in the affair of the so-called Indian Premier League’s snub to Pakistani cricketers, for neither party can claim to have reason on its side.

While discussing the IPL’s, or more correctly its bidders’, treatment of Pakistan’s T20 celebrities, no attention has been paid to its greater disservice to sports — turning cricketers into self-seeking mercenaries whose services are available to the highest bidder in a public auction. The need to weigh the IPL scheme’s impact on values sportspersons have upheld for ages should not have been ignored.

Like players in other team sports, such as soccer, hockey or rugby, cricketers have traditionally played for their teams. Even when they play for their countries, as members of outfits selected by their national authorities, their foremost loyalty is to the team.

Loyalty to the team obviously takes precedence over a player’s allegiance to his country when he/she joins a group of players from other countries, like Indians or South Africans who played in Tests for England.

There have also been teams comprising players from more than one country, such as the Commonwealth cricket teams that toured Pakistan in the 1950s or the Kerry Packer Circus that came up later on, or the dream teams that are put together after major cricketing events. In all such cases players are expected to keep the team’s standard high. Anyone who deviates from this rule is blamed for lacking in esprit de corps.

In the IPL scheme the players are barely attached to the team, though they do try to attract the attention of the financiers, and are wholly concerned with their success in earning fat fees. One of the foremost ideals of sportspersons is thus lost in a wild scramble for lucre. In simpler words this means putting a premium on selfishness and commerce at the cost of sports.

Further, the system of sale and purchase of players at an open auction, as if they are slaves or sacks of sawdust, should repel anyone who takes his/her sport as a dignified, almost sacred, undertaking. Players do enter into contracts with clubs and promoters through confidential negotiations and those receiving more than one offer do weigh their choices (not necessarily on the basis of the amount of remuneration alone) before any deal is clinched and made public. But the way the IPL auction takes place is incompatible with the sense of pride with which every sportsperson must approach his calling. The disappointment of those who fail to find their buyers thus carries an element of shame at having put themselves up for auction.

The Pakistani players ignored at the auction were justified in feeling humiliated because they were obviously not judged on merit. A quiet withdrawal should have been a proper option — in the case of Pakistan’s official and non-official meddlers too. Instead they were keen to turn the slight caused to some commercial-minded players into a matter of national disgrace.

The retaliatory measures announced by them — cancellation of the visit to India by parliamentarians and the election commissioner and calls to boycott all sports events scheduled to be held in India — made little sense. All such decisions normally advance a demand till the fulfillment of which the protest is supposed to continue. What do the angry Pakistanis want IPL or India to do to satisfy their bruised ego? They cannot be unaware of the fact that the disruption of sports ties with India, or ties in any other area, cannot be sustained forever. The Indians, too, are learning this all over again.

The response from the other side also betrayed lack of reason. The statement that the Government of India was not responsible for the actions of a private establishment did not add to anybody’s knowledge. What it disclosed was an element of insensitivity to the cause of India-Pakistan détente that was under threat. A word of sympathy for the Pakistani cricketers and a promise to probe the matter could have defused the situation.

That the matter did warrant a probe is obvious. While ignoring the Pakistani players the bidders at the auction undoubtedly disregarded their commercial interests. What made them do that? Two reasons have been mentioned — security concerns and uncertainty about the Pakistani players’ success in reaching the stadia. Did the bidders realise these problems on their own or were these hurdles suggested to them by some persons in or close to authority? That is something the Indian home minister may try to find out, now that he has recognised the potential (or shall we say market value) of the Pakistani cricketers on display.

The attitude of the IPL speculators is hard to understand because other commercial elements are trying to make huge profits from India-Pakistan joint variety shows.

However, what should be a matter of special concern to all people of goodwill is that the hiatus in relations between the two governments is widening the gulf between the people of India and Pakistan. Until some time ago, men and women devoted to culture, the arts, literature and sports on both sides could stay aloof from inter-governmental squabbles; but now the subcontinent seems to have taken a big leap backward. A decline in the prospects of promoting India-Pakistan understanding on peace and cooperation between them through cultural exchanges and sports moots will harm both sides.

Cooperation between India and Pakistan was always necessary in the interest of the people of the two countries, but this need has never been as pressing as now. If earnest efforts to revive normal relations between them are not mounted soon the demons of hate and hostility will push them further away from each other and incidents like the IPL affair will continue to poison the minds of new generations.

An immediate objective before New Delhi and Islamabad should be the reactivation of the hotline between their top leaderships. They can have better success in damage control than the bureaucrats who mostly specialise in stoking up bitterness without reason.

 

[Sir Alex]

So where was Mr. Rehman or Dawn during IPL 1? Or is it just now that suddenly they realised cricketers are becoming "mercenaries"?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Haha Pakistani toured India for the Asian Test trophy which was a joint effort. And lol at the comments of returning the favor in 05 and 07, because such invites have to happen from the Indian Board. You are saying 05 and 07 were charity? PCB benefited equally as well. Lastly, whether or not Pakistan repaid it nor not, you cannot deny India lent the helping hand when PCB was almost bankrupt in 2004.

Yes so PCB benefited equally when touring in 05 and 07 but BCCI did not in 04 and 06 and was doing charity?? So BCCI has to be hailed for inviting PCB in 05 and 07 and also hailed for agreeing to help out their oh so poor neighbours in 04 and 06.
Because thats what you're suggesting. I did not try to suggest that PCB was doing charity...I know this is business and no one is doing charity here. I am not sure you realize that though?
Oh and Pakistan played 2 test matches before the Asian Test Championship. Infact it was meant to be a 3 test match series but the third test was later converted into the first Asian Test Championship test.
oh and you're welcome

Oh ok.. suggest you put a disclaimer : Please don't reply to it next time when posting in message boards like this.

Thats your response for failing to realize that it was an example? Ok

 

[Black_Warrior]

So where was Mr. Rehman or Dawn during IPL 1? Or is it just now that suddenly they realised cricketers are becoming "mercenaries"?

He realized that earlier actually. I am sorry I was not a regular on this forum back then and was not able to post his article for your benefit.

 

[Sir Alex]

Yes so PCB benefited equally when touring in 05 and 07 but BCCI did not in 04 and 06 and was doing charity?? So BCCI has to be hailed for inviting PCB in 05 and 07 and also hailed for agreeing to help out their oh so poor neighbours in 04 and 06.
Because thats what you're suggesting. I did not try to suggest that PCB was doing charity...I know this is business and no one is doing charity here. I am not sure you realize that though?
Oh and Pakistan played 2 test matches before the Asian Test Championship. Infact it was meant to be a 3 test match series but the third test was later converted into the first Asian Test Championship test.
oh and you're welcome

I see you are seeing past the crux of the argument here : I repeat. When PCB was down and out in 2004, it was BCCI who lent the helping hand. The rest of the tours were as a result of the sudden "bhai bhai" between the two boards trying in to rake in as much moolah as possible. Do not get me wrong, I am not defending BCCI, they are the most money hungry board in International cricket.

 

[honestbharani]

homeboy at the end of the day it matters nothing what you think, the simple fact is all of India adores Shahid Khan Afridi and would love him to play for their adopted team, just like Kolkata embraced Akhtar even though hes the biggest nightmare of all in the dressing room. 99.9% of them would snatch Afridi in a heartbeat over all other international players and even some local Indian ones, he is that much of a draw and entertainer. So continue hating...

wow.. JUST wow... We live in India and we are yet to see this "adoration" for Shahid Khan Afridi you are talking about.. I can tell you bunch of 20 to 25 guys who get a better response than Afridi from our crowds EVERY time... Heck, there are Pak players themselves who are more popular here than Afridi. How many TV commercials has Afridi done in India? And how many have been done by visiting Aussie, South African and English and even West Indian players? Heck, even Fleming is there in quite a few ads and Afridi isn't... Where is this marketability and commercial interest everyone is talking about, awayboy??????????

 

[Sanz]

second, I don't think Laxman deserved to captain any team.. let alone a 20/20..

How much have you watched him as captain ? Please do not tell me that the above is an opinion formed by watching handful of T20 games.

Deccon's failure was because of Laxman.. his field seting and the way he used his bowlers.. it was just attrocious..

FYI, VVS played in only 6 matches in IPL1, there were 8 more matches played by the Deccans, how many they won ?

Afridi despite having a decent tournment with ball, he wasn't given chance to bowle his full quota in most matches.. despite that he took 9 wickets with average of 25 which is a very decent average.. considering that he wasn't fairly treated by the captain.. he did play important innings.one of them was when he opend the innings with gilly and made 30 odd and the other one was when he made 20 in like 6 balls..

This is such a load of ignorant bull crap. As I said VVS played only 6 games in IPL1. Out of those 6 Games, Afridi played in 5. Now read the next very carefully because that will have some facts, that you may not be ready to hear (just like the trend in this thread) :-

1. :- In the 5 Games that Afridi played under Laxman, He (Afridi ) bowled 17 (out of max 20) overs. In 3 matches he bowled his full quota, in the remaining two be bowled 2 and 3 overs. One of those two games where Afridi bowled 2 overs was finished in 13 overs, ther other was finished in 18.5 overs. So the conclusion is that Laxman did NOT underbowl Afridi,

2. 6 of Afridi's 9 wickets came under Laxman's captaincy in the 5 games Afridi played for him. In the remaining 5 games, Afridi bowled only 13 overs and took 3 wickets. So the conclusion is that as a Captain VVS recognized and used Afridi's bowling better than Gilly did. In the 4 innings that Afridi had an opportunity to bat, he was sent @ NO. 5 3 times and @ no. 3 once, needless to say Afridi failed him every time as a batsman.

3. In the 3rd Game, DC scored 214 runs batting first, They were in comfortable position until Symonds came to bowl in last over and gave away 20 runs.

4. In the 6th Game, DC had to chase 156, Afridi came into bat @ 127/3, scored 1. VVS scored 52 (in 44).

5.In the 5th game DC score 164 in 20, VVS scored 48, Afridi 13

6. In the 4th Game that DC won, Laxman was ubeatedn on 37.

Yes VVS wasn't great in IPL1, but his performances with the bat and as captain were overly criticized.

If you ever get a chance to talk to any International cricketer (except Afridi ofcourse), you should ask him about VVS. Perhaps one of the nicest guy ever to play the game, If Afridi had a problem with VVS then you know who has issues.

 

[Sanz]

homeboy at the end of the day it matters nothing what you think, the simple fact is all of India adores Shahid Khan Afridi and would love him to play for their adopted team, just like Kolkata embraced Akhtar even though hes the biggest nightmare of all in the dressing room.

Comparing Akhtar to Afridi ??. While Akhtar has many flaws, he is quite popular in India in recent times, mainly because of his numerous apperances in the Indian Media and Indian TV channels. Not to forget, everyone roots for the Underdog. When Akhtar came to KKR, he was going through tough times and Sharukh did a favor to him by giving him a contract. And yes, I was rooting for him and wanted him to do well. Like I said, he has his flaws but Akhtar over Afridi anyday.

99.9% of them would snatch Afridi in a heartbeat over all other international players and even some local Indian ones, he is that much of a draw and entertainer. So continue hating...

Yeah that's why Afridi was the first cricketer to get a bid in the auction. Even after the pressure from the Central Government, no Franchise has come forward so far while millions of heartbeats have passed in between. And if one reads the reports that are coming out from South Asia, a spent force like Razzaq has more demand in IPL than Afridi. So yeah, let's keep dreaming.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I got my opinion and u have urs..so feel free to go nuts with urs.. inaddition, I never thought wining for those teams that u have mentioned up there mattered anyways.. i see domastic cricket as a competation that grooms cricketers and get them ready for international side.. nothing more..




interesting.. i thought he criticized him after the IPL season.. not during the season..

this goes again to my argument.. if Afridi would have played for his country.. he may not have done that..this shows how much he cares about this whole crap that they call IPL teams..

he scored some quick runs..but afridi's main priority has been his bowling since 2005.. i thought u were rating him unfairly and purely as a batsman..




last time i checked.. he didn't show interest in playing with them anyways..something good came out of not participating.. he improved his game enough that single handedly won the world cup for his team..

Haha, Afridi was very much interested in playing in Season 2, it was the Pak Govt that prevented him from playing.

 

[G.I.Joe]

homeboy at the end of the day it matters nothing what you think, the simple fact is all of India adores Shahid Khan Afridi and would love him to play for their adopted team, just like Kolkata embraced Akhtar even though hes the biggest nightmare of all in the dressing room. 99.9% of them would snatch Afridi in a heartbeat over all other international players and even some local Indian ones, he is that much of a draw and entertainer. So continue hating...

You have no idea how much he's rated (or not) over here. So spare us the trumped up arguments. I don't hate him, I just don't rate him as much as you do. Its because I'm not a fanboy, you see.

 

[Sanz]

Sir Alex,
its mutual. Pakistan toured India in 99 despite threats from Shiv Sena. That helped BCCI. If BCCI helped Pakistan in 2004 and 2006 by touring, PCB returned the favour in 2005 and 2007. BCCI is not World Vision that is running a charity show and going out of their way to help Pakistan. We are in business together..get over yourself mate.

I think you are forgetting some things here :-

1. In 1998-99 India did not need Pakistan to tour India. BCCI was not on the verge of Bankruptcy.India had toured Pak in 1997 for 3 ODIs , Political relations between the two countries were starting to get Normal, hence the mutually agreed tour and in the backdrop of this Friendship, there was another back stabbing aka KARGIL

2. In 2004, PCB was on the verge of Bankruptcy, no one was willing to tour Pakistan. India toured Pakistan and PCB made record profit, and same thing again in 2006. Yes Pakistan reciprocated the tour , but India didn't need Pakistan to tour. Indian Board was making record profits without Pakistan touring. India-Pak Test matches didn't even gather as much interest in India as Ind-Aus test did.

3. So for you to claim whatever you have in your post is a bit delusional and far from the non-jingoistic approach that you claim to maintain during this discussion.

 

[Sanz]

Haha, Afridi was very much interested in playing in Season 2, it was the Pak Govt that prevented him from playing.

Haha yeah. Here is another gem from Afridi and his fellow players, why no one wants to deal with them.

Pakistan players to sue IPL for cancelling contracts | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

"The players believe since they didn't refuse to play in the IPL the organisers should not have terminated their contracts at a short notice without clearing dues for the full three-year contract,"

But again, why believe the report, let's all live in the delusion.

 

[Sanz]

wow.. JUST wow... We live in India and we are yet to see this "adoration" for Shahid Khan Afridi you are talking about.. I can tell you bunch of 20 to 25 guys who get a better response than Afridi from our crowds EVERY time... Heck, there are Pak players themselves who are more popular here than Afridi. How many TV commercials has Afridi done in India? And how many have been done by visiting Aussie, South African and English and even West Indian players? Heck, even Fleming is there in quite a few ads and Afridi isn't... Where is this marketability and commercial interest everyone is talking about, awayboy??????????

I don't believe you are Indian, TBH.

 

[nightprowler10]

Sohail Tanvir :- "HinduoN ki Jeheniyat hi Aisi hi hai"

He's the biggest prick Pakistani cricket has ever produced, and he's got some serious competition.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't believe you are Indian, TBH.

 

[SJS]

Its amazing how quickly we (Indians and Pakistanis) can move completely off the track when it comes to Indo-Pak issues.

Coming back to tack, it cant be anyone's case that the non-selection of Pakistani players was purely on cricketing grounds. That being the case, the public (in both countries I must add) deserves to know what prompted all the franchisees to act in this manner.

That the Indian government has nothing to do with it is now clear after the home ministers strong criticism of the non-selection of Pakistani players. So what happened?

If it has to do with fears that visas may not be received, let the franchisees say so?

If they are scared of Shiv Sena types, they MUST say so.

But don't give us bull **** that that there were no extraneous factors at all. By doing this, they are only encouraging rumours and ill-will is the direct result of that.

The players from Pakistan and the cricket fans of both countries deserve better.