*Official* Pakistan in Australia

[Top_Cat]

Sydney....could be worse for Pak.....

Have to agree. Reckon if they don't have a good first session, the match will be over quickly.

 

[Rant0r]

I reckon he bowls way too fast

 

[Matt79]

That's easily fixed. He's got good accuracy, stamina, very good variations. If he gets a chance to bowl in more helpful conditions, he could rip through sides IMO.

 

[pasag]

If we start writing off spinners for failing in Australia then Murali's not Test standard either.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

The channel 9 guys (Greig maybe) were saying they had presumed he was injured, but had bumped into him on the first morning and he said he was out of the team because he wasn't bowling well. Wouldn't be Pakistan with some selection intrigue (not that Younis hasn't supplied plenty already).

Rauf needs to be dropped as a punishment/message about the three(iirc) top order catches he dropped, if for no other reason.

What absolute tosh! How can you drop Gul for Rauf? Incredible. Mind you, I guess it wouldn't be Pakistan without them shooting themselves in the foot at least once. No player, unless they were the new incarnation of The Don (or Malcolm Marshall) should be allowed to feature in international cricket if they field as badly as some of these Pakistan players have over the last 3 months. It is frankly pathetic and must be so demoralising for the bowlers to have to create 12-15 wicket taking deliveries rather than the normal 10.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Rock and a hard place isnt it, The outcry if Ponting had of been banned. People like to complain that Australia will do anything to win but when they dont. Are you saying that Ponting should have deliberiatly contravened the laws of the game to try and win a match. You would find that completely acceptable.

Captains getting fined and banned for slow overrates is nothing new. Slow over rates can be traced to a lot of factors..poor support staff, sight screen problems, batsmen taking too long etc etc. At that point, India were 6 wickets down with Harbhajan batting with Dhoni..the only thing on Ponting's mind should have been to knock off the tail and try to win the match.

And another myth is McGrath, Ponting has won 42 test matches as captain and McGrath has played in less than half of them.

Win ratio is not what I was talking about. Of course Australia can win without McGrath..
What I meant was, he has looked relatively less confident, less attacking, and at times, less supportive of his bowling attack comprising of Siddle, Lee, Hilfenhaus, Johnson and Bollinger. Now of course its a totally different attack, and much inferior to McGrath, Gillespie and Warne..but as a captain..his job is to show faith in them..especially the new guys, so that they feel that despite being new and untested, their captain is ready to back them, and is happy to have them in his side.

 

[Xuhaib]

There are too many areas Pak is lacking proper players....first of all openers are joke....seriously...there is no way these 2 openners will ever come out strong and post a openning stand....this means Pak will start out the Test under pressure without even playing a single delivery....

Second area, needless to say, fielding.....no matter how much emphasis everyone puts on it.....it ain't happening overnight for Pak.....they needed to do this before they came to these 2 tough tours....hard fielding practice.....seems like they didn't do $hit....!

Third....spin department.....and a 3rd seamer.....hard to see why Gul wasn't bowling...and a crappy Gul spell is still better and produces more wicket taking opportunities then Rauf....they equally suck fielding at point...If Kaneria is injured we have Ajmal, who seems to be a total test failure..he does not have the skill that it takes to bowl in tests......simple contrast is with Hauritz...

And i am not going to talk about the middle.......its the biggest gamble for us.....Umar, Misbah....two important components are risky players in the middle......so....

having said that......the only Test level competitive players we have are the same names...Yousuf, Asif, Aamir, Kaneria, and perhaps Gul.......The rest of the team is all over the place right now.....as much as i love watching Umer....he has a lot to learn about Test cricket and how to be patient.....

Sydney....could be worse for Pak.....

I agree I have said it before Umer is not test cricket ready yet, I know he is bloody talented but he's not in Sachin, Miandad class that he can succeed at test cricket even before his 22nd birthday.Umer was never in the running for a test birth until the monster A tour he had in Australia. I get the feeling his form is starting to wane a bit and Aussies have found a weakness to the away going ball which they will utilize to maximum through Johnson and Bolly.

He will play test cricket and will be quite successful at it but thats 2-3 years away I feel.

 

[Xuhaib]

That's easily fixed. He's got good accuracy, stamina, very good variations. If he gets a chance to bowl in more helpful conditions, he could rip through sides IMO.

This is also his first non sub cont trip atleast for the longer versions will take time to settle in I remember how dire bhajji was in his first trip to Aus and Eng he should improve with exp.

 

[Black_Warrior]

why?

Apart from Asif,Mo Yo and Kamran none of the other Pakistani players will make it to Aus state sides I am not including Umer and Aamir here since both are new and its harsh to expect them to win matches on their first tour to Aus.

Pakistan has always struggled in Aus even during the golden era of 80's and 90's so why it would be different this time.

Pakistan actually managed to draw a test series in the 80s and go 0-1 fighting in 87. Thats different to 2004 and now. In 2004, Pakistan meekly surrendered under another meek captain..and this time its no different.
In 99, they had their best chance..and would have probably won 1 test match had it not been for Peter Parkar..
In 96, they came with a good team with Wasim, Waqar and Mushtaq at their peak and managed to win 1 test match.

As I have said before...all I expect in this series from Pakistan is to go down fighting thats all..and till now, except for a spell from Aamer, I havent seen any fight from this side in this test match. I would have been happy if Pakistan managed 300 plus in the fourth innings...like West Indies did at Perth. Look at how West Indies performed, they came with a pretty average side too and look how they fought..look how their captain fought and led from the front..

 

[Xuhaib]

Pakistan actually managed to draw a test series in the 80s and go 0-1 fighting in 87. Thats different to 2004 and now. In 2004, Pakistan meekly surrendered under another meek captain..and this time its no different.
In 99, they had their best chance..and would have probably won 1 test match had it not been for Peter Parkar..
In 96, they came with a good team with Wasim, Waqar and Mushtaq at their peak and managed to win 1 test match.

As I have said before...all I expect in this series from Pakistan is to go down fighting thats all..and till now, except for a spell from Aamer, I havent seen any fight from this side in this test match. I would have been happy if Pakistan managed 300 plus in the fourth innings...like West Indies did at Perth. Look at how West Indies performed, they came with a pretty average side too and look how they fought..look how their captain fought and led from the front..

Thats what I meant even with the golden generation Aus was one place where we never won a test series. Even though we never won in Windies but atleast there were two series where Pak should have won if not for the umpiring howlers on the final day.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Those two aren't as bad as they are made out. The one who is seriously bad and undeserving of a place in the side imo is Misbah.Pakistan's problem isn't that they have got a crap team, it's that they fail to maintain their intensity for a long period of time.

Misbah is undeserving despite scoring a 65 and Farhat is deserving because?

 

[Black_Warrior]

This Pakistani batting is ridiculously fragile. If only the partition had never occurred - the best result of that would have been an actual balanced team.

LOL..that would have been a great side indeed.and perhaps would have been a world leader for years..because the prime reason for India's failures has always been poor bowling while the main reason for Pakistan's failures has always been poor batting..

Many Pakistani batsmen and many Indian bowlers would never play international cricket then!

When you look back decades from now, Imran Khan's emergence and influence may have been an aberration in Pakistan's cricket history. He could have been just another medium pace trundler but had to leave the system and develop as a pure fast bowler in England. Then of course his leadership had to circumvent the failed cricket structure in Pakistan time and again. He left a legacy of relying on fast bowlers and aggressive cricket. After he left the scene, Pakistan had sporadic success with lack of leadership and discipline but still enjoyed the services of those players he picked/mentored (Wasim, Waqar, Musthaq, Anwar, Inzi, Moin) along with an aggressive streak. With Inzi gone, so was the last vestige of Imran's influence and Pakistan has entered the post-Imran era.

The failures of Pakistan's cricket system are now catching up with the team's performance in a major way and you can only rely on pure talent like we did in the past for so much so long. Though thankfully, the presence of fast bowlers seems to have stuck. Unless you get a better system or a truly inspirational and uniting leader, Pakistan cricket is destined to remain inconsistent and not reflective of its potential.

Totally summed it up.. Imran has always said that Pakistan's success is despite the system not because of it. Pakistan always relied on 3-4 match winners to do the job..Miandad or Abbas to score runs, Imran and Qadir to take wickets..Anwar, Inzy or Salim Malik to score runs, Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Shoaib to take wickets.. It has never been a smooth team. Now that all of Imran's finds, Wasim, Waqar, Inzy, Anwar, Mushtaq are gone..team is struggling big time. What disappoints me is to see the likes of Farhat and Butt play test cricket..because the rest- Taufiq Umar, Khurram Manzoor, Fawad Alam are even worse. The system needs an overhaul and without that, I dont see Pakistani cricket rising anytime soon.

 

[Black_Warrior]

If pakistan had taken their catches in the first and really decisive innings, this game would probably have been closer.

In any case two of Pakistans best players in Younis Khan and Danish Kaneria weren't available this game while Australia played a full strenght squad.

Even though Umar gul has been in terrible form, Sydney provided perfect conditions for reverse swing. Umar gul who is primarily probably the worlds best reverse swing exponent has not found reverse swing conducive conditions since the 2020 in England.

If the next wicket will assist reverse swing, they should play gul, this coupled with Kaneria and Younis will make for tremendous test match viewing and I feel Pakistan with the emergence of Umar Akmal and Aamer will have a slight edge in terms of talent.

Younis will most likely not play. Kaneria..I am not sure why he is held in such high regard. He played in 2004, and hardly made an impact..despite making a tall claim either during the Melbourne test or the Sydney test that he would win the match for Pakistan on the 5th day. Australia have some very good players of spin in the side, and Kaneria has never been lethal against good players of spin.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I agree I have said it before Umer is not test cricket ready yet, I know he is bloody talented but he's not in Sachin, Miandad class that he can succeed at test cricket even before his 22nd birthday.Umer was never in the running for a test birth until the monster A tour he had in Australia. I get the feeling his form is starting to wane a bit and Aussies have found a weakness to the away going ball which they will utilize to maximum through Johnson and Bolly.

He will play test cricket and will be quite successful at it but thats 2-3 years away I feel.

Umar Akmal lacks temperament. He has a tendency of getting out after scoring a 50. Thats a terrible habit for a top order batsman..However, he is 19..so perhaps he is not test match ready yet and hopefully with time he will improve..but does Pakistan have a choice? No. Pakistan should thank heavens that they have found at least a talented young batsman after Yousuf and Younis, I really dont see any exciting young talent coming up. Atleast he gets a 50. The rest of the jokers cant even manage that.

As for Pakistan's performance against Australia in the 80s, they used to thrash Australia at home and draw away so that placed them higher than Australia..and even when they lost, they were hotly contested. The performance in 2004, and now can hardly be called a contest. Australia were treating them like minnows..especially with Ponting's declarations.

 

[Streetwise]

What I meant was, he has looked relatively less confident, less attacking, and at times, less supportive of his bowling attack comprising of Siddle, Lee, Hilfenhaus, Johnson and Bollinger. Now of course its a totally different attack, and much inferior to McGrath, Gillespie and Warne..but as a captain..his job is to show faith in them..especially the new guys, so that they feel that despite being new and untested, their captain is ready to back them, and is happy to have them in his side. .

You are way off the mark here, Ponting has been exceptional in bringing this group of bowlers together. Everyone is fully aware of the amazing work Ponting has done to instill a sense of pride and confidence in to this Australian team. Justin Langer interviewed about his appointment to the Australian coaching staff gave a good account of the work Ponting has done and the feeling within the team. Its not just him, ABC commentators remarked that Ponting is held in higher regard by the players than Waugh or Taylor achieved. I think you have way underestimated Ponting and probably havent got the full picture of the Australian team.

 

[Craig]

This is also his first non sub cont trip atleast for the longer versions will take time to settle in I remember how dire bhajji was in his first trip to Aus and Eng he should improve with exp.

He's 32, I guess he can't wait too long I read last week that Terry Jenner reckons Kaneria will get 500 Test wickets. But then this guy has dined off Shane Warne his whole coaching career so...

 

[Xuhaib]

He's 32, I guess he can't wait too long I read last week that Terry Jenner reckons Kaneria will get 500 Test wickets. But then this guy has dined off Shane Warne his whole coaching career so...

Due to Pak's fast bowling strength and Kaneria I doubt Ajmal will get the opportunity to forge out a test career but if does get the opportunity I expect him to make a decent test career.

 

[Streetwise]

He's 32, I guess he can't wait too long I read last week that Terry Jenner reckons Kaneria will get 500 Test wickets. But then this guy has dined off Shane Warne his whole coaching career so...

Yeah hundreds of young Australia cricketers have been coached by Jenner, and many more at his spin clinics in India. He has spent thousands of hours teaching young players and all he has to show is Warne. Cant understand what people see in him.

 

[silentstriker]

It's very interesting how many teams do better starting from their second Test in Australia. We saw that with India last year, then with West Indies too. Especially for teams like India who may have players not used to the conditions, playing two to three three days games should be an absolute must. Obviously, there is no way BCCI would waste two weeks on making no money, but it would make for so much more entralling contests. Other teams who have a hard time in the subcontinent should also request the same, if possible. Maybe instead of playing a FC team, they can play the 'A' team, which might give the visitors a higher standard of opposition, and would help the 'A' team players a chance to show what they can do against international players.

 

[Jono]

With India and WI they had poor preparation so that made sense.

But Pakistan have come from 3 tests in NZ and had a practice game.

I'm sure Pakistan will put in a better performance in Sydney, but there was no reason for them to be so **** in Melbourne... particularly with the batting.