*Official* England in South Africa

[TT Boy]

Couldn't he just get himself a British passport and be available immediately if that was the case?

Yeah, that is what I thought but Neil Dexter of Middlesex had a British passport before he even arrived in the UK to go university but he still needed to do three years once he started professionally with Kent to be able to represent England.

 

[TT Boy]

Ok so being scottish means u get to play for england? Why the scottish, Irish, Wales and England rugby boards then?

A Somalia could play for England if he did three years in the country. Imran Tahir can play for South Africa, why because he has lived there for three years. Beast Tendai Mtawarira played for South Africa after doing three years residency and he still is a Zimbo (still does not have a South African passport).

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah, that is what I thought but Neil Dexter of Middlesex had a British passport before he even arrived in the UK to go university but he still needed to do three years once he started professionally with Kent to be able to represent England.

Heh, interesting. I have a British passport so I just assumed I was eligible to play for England. I've obviously got nothing on Swanny anyway but it's interesting.

 

[jboss]

Mind you Kieswtters record looks as good as Kuhns and average the same. Don't think he would make SA team anyway given that Kuhn can't either.

 

[GIMH]

Couldn't he just get himself a British passport and be available immediately if that was the case?

Heh, interesting. I have a British passport so I just assumed I was eligible to play for England. I've obviously got nothing on Swanny anyway but it's interesting.

No, cricket's eligibility is actually a bit stricter than it should be (IMO) in that the likes of Pietersen & Trott had to qualify despite actually being half-English.

Also, can we get a thud smiley round here, need to use it for some posts in this thread

 

[Prince EWS]

1 Subject to the overriding discretion of the ECB, acting with the consent of the International Cricket Council, a Cricketer will only be qualified to play for England in a Test Match or in a One Day International Match if:

(a) he is either a British citizen or an Irish citizen; and either
(i) he was born within England and Wales;
(ii) he has been resident in England and Wales for the immediately preceding four consecutive years;

and

(b) he has not during the immediately preceding four consecutive years either
(i) played cricket for any Full Member Country except England at under 17 level or above,
(ii) played First Class Cricket in any Full Member Country outside England and Wales, except as an overseas cricketer under local rules similar to Regulation 3 above or in any other circumtances approved by the ECB

and

(c) he makes, whenever requested by the ECB, a declaration in the form set out in the Annex to this
Regulation;

and

(d) he is also qualified for England pursuant to theprovisions laid down from time to time by ICC



Which actually means I would be eligible to play for England as I haven't played First Class or national youth cricket as a national of another country. Keiswetter playing for South Africa Under 19s means he has done the four-year residency, even if he becomes a British national.

EDIT: Actually no, I don't qualify for A despite being a national either because I was born in Sydney. So I'd have to do my four years too.

 

[Prince EWS]

The ICC regulations are actually a lot more relaxed that those; those are ECB-specific. So for all the jokes about England poaching players from other countries, they make it a lot harder to do so than they actually have to.

 

[Uppercut]

What's your link with Britain PEWS?

 

[Prince EWS]

What's your link with Britain PEWS?

English mother which allowed me to get a British passport.

 

[BoyBrumby]

EDIT: Actually no, I don't qualify for A despite being a national either because I was born in Sydney. So I'd have to do my four years too.

Yep, you got it. The ECB insist on the 4 years' residence (not required by the ICC) even if you're a British subject if you're overseas-born. It's why KP (a British passport holder from birth thanks to his mother & who'd never played age group for SA) still had to do his residency qualification.

You could play rugby league for England tomorrow tho.

 

[TT Boy]

Stand corrected. Thought it was three years given Kieswetter did not debut until 2007 but he was going to Millfield before that.

 

[Quaggas]

BTW, is Kolpak on the way out (at least for ACP countries)? Or is it simply too costly for the counties?

 

[Prince EWS]

You could play rugby league for England tomorrow tho.

Haha, I don't think I'd even need a passport for that; just having the English mother to begin with makes me eligible there I think.

 

[tooextracool]

WTF. By that logic you'd never ever hand anyone a debut on the grounds that they're yet to prove they can score runs in a test match.

Prior at 6 is not the real issue for me. I dont have problems with an unproven batter at 6, but I do when we are going in with only 6 batters with a part time batsman at 7. There are serious issues with playing only 6 batters when 2 of them are Cook and Prior IMO.

 

[tooextracool]

TEC is the polar opposite of me in that he's obsessed with technique. I think technique's pretty worthless in a batsman. Well, not worthless. But it's a means to an end. I look at the end product. Even when I think a batsman has a technical weakness (e.g. Andrew Strauss) it doesn't mean I consider him a worse player. It just makes me wonder why people aren't exploiting it more often.

Everybody has technical weaknesses and what you say maybe somewhat true. However, some have technical glitches that cannot be overcome at the test match level while some have the ability to cover them up without seriously hampering their record (E.g. Steve Waugh against the short ball). There are countless examples of people who were failures at the test match level because of a technical weakness, some who were prolific run scorers at all other levels so its hardly a myth.

 

[Jarquis]

Prior averages 53 at 6 and 40 at 7. He averaged 41.5 in Test cricket, he's picked for his batting more so than his keeping. Having him in the top 6 wouldn't be a real issue for me, it worked in the Ashes for the most part. It's just you can't count on Broad and co(excluding Swanneh obv ) to provide anything from 7 downwards.

 

[jboss]

Ok I have a serious question here. Apart from being an english fan, do you think that the SA fan should pay money to see their team being denied victory by two people who grew up here and were not looked after? I am taking this issue up with CSA and am in thier ears about it because I think it is plain wrong. Please bare in mind that sport unites a nation and given the history South Africa have, why are all our sporting boards ****ing things up. South African fans have to be the most fickle and that's hardly a surprise when it seams to be scandal after scandal. Hansie gate, camp staltraad(think it was called), kolpak cricketers, quotas, not competing in international sports for 2 decades. I mean in fairness SA deserve a lot of credit for keeping usch high standards in isolation from international sport and deserve more critisism from the international sporting bodies for or governement quickly ruining it.

I have promised to leave all support for any sport in this country if we fail to make any impact in the next RWC because players like Steyn can't play for us and I have a good mind in doing the same if we can't beat teams like Eng or NZ in cricket when it is CLEAR that this country has the best cricket depth that just continues to go elsewhere? I can't even say that Eng deserved to win the asshes under Vaughn as it was really the BS quotas that helped them by giving them a player like Pieterson. Anyway I just don't think it's fair and if England won a CWC or gained no1 test ranking, we may find another Indian discussion because clearly 35% of thier current team went to school in SA, learnt cricket there and became good at it and then went up the ranks and gained exposure and good coaching because of it.

 

[Matt79]

Pietersen, with an "e". Don't make me extend my signature.

I'm not an England fan - and I'd not have any problems with the suggestion that SA fans pay money to go watch England play them in this current series. Apart from any of the more involved questions, it's simply a better spectacle with the England team including Pietersen and Trott - a test match going the full five days, with all results still feasible as of halfway through the second to last session? Brilliant.

Wouldn't really categorise the boycott as a "scandal", in the sense that Cronje's actions were.

The players are eligible under the rules, and that's pretty much the end of it for mine. I had no issue, for instance, enjoying watching Nash play and play well for the West Indies during the Aus-WI series just gone.

 

[jboss]

Pietersen, with an "e". Don't make me extend my signature.

I'm not an England fan - and I'd not have any problems with the suggestion that SA fans pay money to go watch England play them in this current series. Apart from any of the more involved questions, it's simply a better spectacle with the England team including Pietersen and Trott - a test match going the full five days, with all results still feasible as of halfway through the second to last session? Brilliant.

Wouldn't really categorise the boycott as a "scandal", in the sense that Cronje's actions were.

The players are eligible under the rules, and that's pretty much the end of it for mine. I had no issue, for instance, enjoying watching Nash play and play well for the West Indies during the Aus-WI series just gone.

Sorry it is due to the other Peterson that made the team and the x amount of ways to spell it yet pronounced the same.

I see where u coming from but it becomes a joke when the RWC champs are beaten by a club side (Saracians) filled with players from thier own country. You are right by saying that it was not a scandal because of the racial policies at the time in SA but it is becoming a scandal because the world is ignoring the same thing happening right now.

Apart from that I would love to see world track athletic team with quotas. Imagine only whites running i the 100m

 

[Matt79]

I know very little about rugby and its politics.

Look, I'll give you that I'm not a fan of the Kolpak ruling in general, in that I think national sporting teams are a field where discrimination on the basis of nationality should be allowed. But if you've jumped the hoops in terms of having citizenship and served any qualification period, have at it IMO.