India: Deserved of No. 1?

[Sir Alex]

When did India last win a series in South Africa? Honest question, I have no idea.

That exactly is the point. SA has not won in Ind for a long time, India has never won in SA. Aus has not won in India for more than 5 years, India have not won in Aus. They are all similar.

 

[Zinzan]

Let me make it clear...


The rankings system has been around for a long time.


We have been ranked #1 as per the ratings...


We deserve it as per the system.


If you think we are not the clear cut number one, I agree.. If you think we do not deserve, no I am sorry, we do. The system rewards current and recent series performances and our current and recent series performances have been better than Australia and RSA.

Dude, I'll put this as nicely as I can. If you're still uncertain as to where I stand on the question on whether India are 'deserving of the title', either you haven't read my previous posts fully or your skills in comprehension are sadly lacking, so I'll presume the former.

Let me make it clear ...


Do I think India are 'undeserving' of the title based on the ICC model? No

Am I convinced Indian are undoubtedly the best Test team in the world right now ? No

 

[GotSpin]

That exactly is the point. SA has not won in Ind for a long time, India has never won in SA. Aus has not won in India for more than 5 years, India have not won in Aus. They are all similar.

Except India have the No.1 spot...without having a significant away series win in god knows how long.

 

[irfan]

Dude, I'll put this as nicely as I can. If you're still uncertain as to where I stand on the question on whether India are 'deserving of the title', either you haven't read my previous posts fully or your skills in comprehension are sadly lacking, so I'll presume the former.

Let me make it clear ...


Do I think India are 'undeserving' of the title based on the ICC model? No

Am I convinced Indian are undoubtedly the best Test team in the world right now ? No

Fair enough. I do believe that India are currently the best team in the world but South Africa are snapping hard at it's heels whereas Australia (I feel) are a distant third but still hugely ahead of the rest. Essentially

India>SA>>>Aust>>>>>>>>rest

Reckon Pakistan could be the biggest movers in Test cricket - quality bowling attack - pity the top order is non-existent - reckon they should chuck Afridi in there.

 

[honestbharani]

Dude, I'll put this as nicely as I can. If you're still uncertain as to where I stand on the question on whether India are 'deserving of the title', either you haven't read my previous posts fully or your skills in comprehension are sadly lacking, so I'll presume the former.

Let me make it clear ...


Do I think India are 'undeserving' of the title based on the ICC model? No

Am I convinced Indian are undoubtedly the best Test team in the world right now ? No

Well, then the thread title should be changed.. The thread is asking if India deserve to be No.1 and I think we do.. And if you think the same, then there is really no reason for any argument/debate here...

 

[Athlai]

Would it be fair to say India wouldn't be number 1 if Australia hadn't lost to England and South Africa and Australia didn't trade wins recently?

I think India, Australia and South Africa are all very close but I don't think India deserve to be number 1 right now. Their attack just doesn't quite do enough away yet for that title to be truly theirs. They definitely deserve to be with this ICC system though. Big wins vs. Sri Lanka on pitches that a lot of attacks would have found very difficult. Also the best batting lineup in the world by a fair bit.

 

[marc71178]

And South Africa.

Nah, don't let not being able to win away at the home of other top test nations stop you from enjoying this.

The thing is, this current side hasn't had the opportunity to beat them, so until they go there you don't have an argument.

 

[Sir Alex]

Except India have the No.1 spot...without having a significant away series win in god knows how long.

That is because they have a superior home record than the others during the last few years. They are almost similar in away performances.

 

[jboss]

The way I see it is that Aus lost thier ranking and key players that contributed to their stranglehold on the no1 ranked side. Since then not only did Aus have to prove that they were still worthy of being ranked no1, but they failed to so so by losing at home vs SA and losing the ashes. They won in SA but those games ahd far more to do with the toss and SA could just as easily have beaten Aus had they won the toss.

SA have lost at home to Aus but we all know that they have a history of putting thier own pressure on themselves by failing to get match practise before a test seaon at home.

SA drew in India versus India and that makes them an equal side to India when they are India, but when India tour SA SA is the better team. So one can say that SA has an edge over India. SA on the other hand equals Australia as both have managed to beat each other while touring but SA get the edge again as they managed to beat England in England. Should SA lose to England then SA and England become equal again but that would put Aus and SA on equal ground again.

 

[Matt79]

This is simply credibility for me. The validity of the ratings system is not at question but whether the Indian side deserves No.1

Do I always miss the point? Jesus wept. You don't question the validity of the system but question that India is number one under that system? Has someone been fiddling the books in PwC? You're arguing that they don't deserve to be number one because they don't satisfy a criteria that is irrelevant to the system we're discussing. There's no sensible response to that.

 

[GotSpin]

Do I always miss the point? Jesus wept. You don't question the validity of the system but question that India is number one under that system? Has someone been fiddling the books in PwC? You're arguing that they don't deserve to be number one because they don't satisfy a criteria that is irrelevant to the system we're discussing. There's no sensible response to that.

Yet again. As I previously mentioned, such criteria is simply my own criteria for forming my own opinion regarding the No.1 ranking.

 

[Matt79]

Yet again. As I previously mentioned, such criteria is simply my own criteria for forming my own opinion regarding the No.1 ranking.

Don't know how I didn't manage to glean that from posts like:

Let me know when India decide to win away from home.

England got lucky I reckon

But seriously, though they might have the best team on paper and results at home reflect just that, I'll take them seriously when they continually win overseas series.

Not my fault they havn't played SA at home in three years. Nevertheless, if they can't defeat the top teams away they won't, in my eyes, deserve the title of number one. For years teams have struggled to win at India, but that didn't mean they deserved no1, and frankly the situation has barely changed except for a slight improvement in being able to defeat the Windies or England when away.

in a conversation where we're discussing the current ratings.

 

[turnstyle]

Hey jboss. Just to clarify something for me. You're living in South Africa but you're Indian or of Indian heritage?

 

[subshakerz]

I wouldn't really have a problem with India being No.1 as I consider it a statistical anomaly given that this hasn't even been their best season and last year they lost to both Sri Lanka and Australia away. But I must say I am annoyed on how big a deal is being made of it, especially considering when SA were No.1 nobody seemed to think it was that big of an achievement for them.

Nobody should be considered No.1 on the back of a run of victorious home series IMO. You need to prove yourself both home and away for a long period of time before that title means anything. SA had an unbeaten streak of 12 series home and away, India havent accomplished anything close to that .

 

[Quaggas]

India are number 1 and deserve to be number 1. Personally, I admire the way they dismantled SL - no slouches in test cricket themselves.

The ICC ranking system is a quite decent measure at a given point in time IMO. Of course it's backward-looking and its predictive power is what it is. Nothing yet equates India to being WI vintage 80's or Aus of the last 15 years...but who knows, the potential is there.

 

[GotSpin]

Don't know how I didn't manage to glean that from posts like:

in a conversation where we're discussing the current ratings.

No we're discussing whether India deserve to be no.1 and my opinion of the topic

Clearly this is too hard to understand

 

[Matt79]

So you think the current system of ranking gets it wrong? What would you alter in it?

 

[GotSpin]

So you think the current system of ranking gets it wrong? What would you alter in it?

Needs to be far more focus on away series wins against top Test nations.

Though i acknowledge India hasn't had the chance of an away series in South Africa in three years and that they have a marvelous home record (and always have), there's clearly something wrong when the the No.1 ranked team hasn't defeated the three teams below it other than at home.

Apologies for the personal attacks btw.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Ok I just read the article and I really dont see the big deal?
Simon Wilde has made some reasonable arguments to back his claim. Now it is perfectly reasonable to not agree with him but there is no need to dismiss the claim as rubbish or stupid.

Personally, I dont think there is one top team in the world now...Both India and South Africa share that mantle for me. Both have managed to beat England in England, a feat Australia failed twice in a row. Australia winning in SA this year has just left this open for debate otherwise it would be very clear that SA and India are a few notches higher than Australia!
India have played fantastic cricket over the last 2 years and during that period South Africa have managed to draw a series, despite their batsmen being known to be bad players of spin. Thats a tremendous acheivement.
I also think India, with their current batting will win a test series in Australia with their current bowling.
Thats why I so want India to tour South Africa in 2010 because that will be one hell of a series. While the bowling of SA might be termed weak, they always bat well at home so it should be a good contest.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Needs to be far more focus on away series wins against top Test nations.

Though i acknowledge India hasn't had the chance of an away series in South Africa in three years and that they have a marvelous home record (and always have), there's clearly something wrong when the the No.1 ranked team hasn't defeated the three teams below it other than at home.

Apologies for the personal attacks btw.

But except for South Africa, its equal isnt it.
Australia have also not beaten India other than at home
Sri Lanka have also not beaten India other than at home

Only South Africa have managed to draw a series in India!